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Define "true bypass"

#21
Also, I have a question: If you use a 'good' buffer (one that preserves your signal) in front of a pedal with a 'bad' buffer (one that tends to 'suck' some of your tone) will this help at all, or will the benefits of the 'good' buffer be lost once the signal passes through the 'bad' buffer?

-John
 
#22
blastjv said:
Yeah, but it's still a problem for those of us who keep a lot of trebble in our tone. I am really loving the sound from my new rig, but my Morley PWB is a HORRIBLE tone sucker (but an AMAZING wah), and I'm surprised to find that my Aguilar Agro seems to be eating a bit of the liveliness of my sound as well. I hadn't noticed this with the Agro with other rigs I've rotated through recently (the Morley always sucked). I do plan on upgrading cables very soon, but may end up just throwing both of them in a loop.

-John
Click to expand...

i think you're missing my point. SOMETIMES multiple buffers can result in some high end rolloff... but a chain of TBP effects WILL result in high end rolloff. When you become used to this side effect of capacitance, a buffered signal can sound like it is "hissy" by comparison - but in fact, this is the PRESERVATION of the high end of your signal

most of us with long pedal chains would be best served by a judicious combination of a buffered pedal at the front of the chain and a couple judicious loops of TBP pedals.

I've personally found the bypass on Aguilar pedals to be exemplary, not sure about the Agro. But traditional wah-wah pedals are classic tonesuckers - however, this is NOT because of any buffer, it's because the simple design generally uses a hardwire bypass (a "primitive" vintage type bypass over which TBP IS a distinct improvement)

grygrx said:
I still like this article for clarity on bypass details.

http://tonfaktor.blogspot.com/2008/08/mr-way-huge-on-various-bypass-methods.html
Click to expand...

reading this again, I think he gives short shrift to buffered designs. He doesn't directly address their impedance advantage, nor does he mention the variety of buffer designs available (boss has used several different buffers over the years, for example). He seems to be emphasizing the negative about buffers... and of course, that's to his advantage as a TBP builder, isn't it?
 
#24
blastjv said:
Also, I have a question: If you use a 'good' buffer (one that preserves your signal) in front of a pedal with a 'bad' buffer (one that tends to 'suck' some of your tone) will this help at all, or will the benefits of the 'good' buffer be lost once the signal passes through the 'bad' buffer?

-John
Click to expand...

Nope, bad buffer is a bad buffer. Pretty much impossible to fix without upgrading the circuit (usually not worth it) or going around it. Warwick said he has some luck EQing around it, but that's using an effect to fix a bypass (which just seems wrong to me:hmm:).
 
#25
Also, I feel like once a frequency is lost from the original signal it's lost for good. You can boost in that area to help it seem like it's still there, but cutting highs and then boosting them doesn't sound the same as having them there from the start...

-JV
 
#27
I found this article posted on the Dunlop site: [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

I think it explains the different bypass designs quite nicely in a way that's fairly easy to understand. While there are variations on these concepts, this should help most people understand the basic concepts of each.
 
#28
blastjv said:
I was just responding to the Guitar vs bass comment. If I preferred a very bassy sound with little treble I probably wouldn't notice any of the issues I find with tone suck.
Click to expand...

the point is that buffers CAN lead to high end rolloff, while a long chain of true bypass pedals WILL lead to high end rolloff.

more often, a buffered pedal helps RETAIN the higher range of your tone - and this change is all too often perceived as "tone-suck" because the expectations implied by the TBP craze.

true bypass is definitely an improvement mod for many vintage pedals with crappy mechanical (non-buffered) bypass. But for modern production pedals, it isn't always ideal. It's a design choice like any other, with pros and cons that very depending upon the user and the position in the effects chain.
 
#29
No, really, I get your point. I was ONLY responding to your comment, "I guess it's good thing we play bass!" Which (I think) was saying that since most of the tone loss one might experience was in the high frequencies most bassist wouldn't be overly effected by it. I was agreeing with you for the most part, and for most bassists, but for myself and others who like a good bit of treble in our sound, this minimal loss (regardless of type of pedal or why) is noticeable and annoying...

That's all.


-JV
 

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