Detachable power cords... Why?

[ggunn]

When did that happen, what regulations? Geez, I'm an electrical engineer, you'd think I would have heard about it

That's my question as well. There's a lot of talk in here about regulations, UL listing failures, etc. Can someone cite a reference for any of this? Is it in the NEC, and if so, which article?

I'm a EE, too, BTW.

 

[Sid Fang]

My only real beef with them is that the ones that come with amps are barely long enough to reach the floor let alone make it to a wall outlet somewhere.

These things can't cost much buying in bulk by the thousands so would it just kill them to include a 10 or 12 footer? I don't think so.

I always end up cannibalizing longer ones off of old copy machines or something to use with my gear. Have enough short ones here I could outfit a whole band, and enough left after that if I stripped them all and sold the copper I could probably buy another amp, or at least a nice pedal.

People who rack things hate really long cords. People with tall stacks love 'em. Manufacturers split the difference with something minimally acceptable for most people. The great thing about the IEC standard is that I've got several bass amps, but only need to have one really long cord in my bag of tricks.

 

[Coolhandjjl]

For what they cost, fancy schmancy detachable power cables must sound better.

Who wouldn't want to be the first on your block to own one of these: [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]


Invalid Link Removed

Aren't those the guys who make the $600 wall switch as well?

 

[2.6kHz]

5 pages about the merits of detachable power cords.

I love the internet.

 

[will33]

People who rack things hate really long cords. People with tall stacks love 'em. Manufacturers split the difference with something minimally acceptable for most people. The great thing about the IEC standard is that I've got several bass amps, but only need to have one really long cord in my bag of tricks.

Split the difference and send something inconvenient for both parties.

Really short ones are handy for keeping racks organized. A6-footer isn't a good choice for a rack guy or an amp-on-a-stack guy.

 

[Ric5]

Detachable power cords... Why?

Old amps had non-detachable power cords ... the really old amps were only 32 prong ...

So on the old amps when the power cord went bad you had to take it somewhere to get repaired ... with the new technology you simply replace the cord.

 

[Woodsbass]

That's my question as well. There's a lot of talk in here about regulations, UL listing failures, etc. Can someone cite a reference for any of this? Is it in the NEC, and if so, which article?

I'm a EE, too, BTW.

Read through some of my UL stuff, I didn't find any regulations about it. EET here!

 

[Coolhandjjl]

It's not a question of love/hate. It's an industry standard requirement these days. Get used to them, they aren't going anywhere. Some boutique builders still wire their PTP tube amps with attached cords, and are rolling the dice with liability in the process.

People using the old standard Heyco power cord bushing could use a regular drill, or if they were making holes in a chassis for tube sockets they probably had a Greenlee knockout punch to use.

Making a hole for the IEC connector means buying another die, that can run anywhere from $50 ~ $250 dollars. Small companies like Verellen are on top of it, but a guy in his garage doing custom builds on the side for the last thirty years probably doesn't want to buy another tool.

Lawsuits are rare for stuff like this, and some people just don't care about insurance. Just take a look at all the people who drive without insurance (where risk is huge!) Not a justification for not doing properly, but that is what I see out there.

 

[onosson]

I have 5-foot power cables, 25-foot power cables, and many in between (mostly due to retaining spare parts from old computers). Depending on the gig, I can swap one for the other – yes, sometimes I've been in situations where there is no stage power within 20 feet... smh – but I don't always want to carry the long one around because it's so bulky. Ymmv.

 

[FretNoMore]

First thing we do when setting up on stage is lay out extension power cords (the roll kind with four outlets) so there is power everywhere it's needed. So no need for extra long cords for the amp, note stand light, pedalboard or what have you.

 

[beans-on-toast]

That's probably more of a insurance concern for small builders. People always have, and always will be making or re-wiring even simple things like lamps and selling them at flea markets. I think the only item that has a blanket 'not allowed to sell even at rummage sales' law is older cribs with wide rail slat spacing.

But if one wants liability insurance for their business; whether it is a hobby business, or business for profit or loss; anything plugging into the mains will need to comply with current regs, or they won't be able to get the insurance. So if there ever is an injury or lawsuit, the crafter of the device will be personally liable. So be careful who you buy from.

No, they don't. And it's scary stuff. Look at the power levels a diy kit can do these days, I've seen some real horror show attempts that people have made building these things.

Also look at most pedal makers ignoring FCC regs. The feds are cracking down now, so they better wise up pretty quick. The little builders are going to get wiped out by fines if they don't do their due diligence.

I've never heard of a boutique builder facing a lawsuit because of one of their amps. But if you buy an uncertified amp and it has an issue that burns down your house and the neighbors, the insurance will not pay out. This is an issue with a lot of boutique products. Most of them are not legal. John Hall at Rickenbacker told me that they got out of the amp business because of liability issues and their related costs.

 

[brianrost]

Ok, sorry I spoke up.

At least IEC cords are better than wall warts

 

[Coolhandjjl]

John Hall at Rickenbacker told me that they got out of the amp business because of liability issues and their related costs.

Modern amps aren't the problem. It's the legacy products they made, the old Transonics that could be potentially hazardous. Not sure what sort of insurance Ampeg holds, those old B15's could be lethal. (Well, any device can be lethal, some just easier than others.) When corporations are bought and sold, sometimes liability still passes to the new owners, sometimes they have to create a 'receiver' solely for potential lawsuits, while shielding the new corporation from liability. Depends on if there was a design defect, code violation, if they knew about it, if there should have been a recall, etc., etc. Companies even get sued for stuff that occurred way back when something they did was legal and in compliance, but now it is not. Gets pretty complicated.

 

[Slevage]

Well established retailers with a buying department requires that, but in the real world, there are thousands of stores that sell whatever the artisan or craftsman brings in. And virtual places like Ebay, Etsy, CL, FB, are still the wild west.

Caviat Emptor, Caviat Vendor------ Beware buyer (you might buy an accident waiting to happen) BUT
Beware seller---- if you screw up, they'll own your house,business,...... everything

 

[2.6kHz]

There is the old LLC which will insulate you from personal liability. The business on the other hand....

 

[Slevage]

Ok, sorry I spoke up.

At least IEC cords are better than wall warts

???????? Class II transformers/power supplies are a different product..... Put a dead short on the output and they'll run "warm" for every because they are current limited by their impedance.

 

[agedhorse]

IEC connectors qualify as 2 pole disconnects for the purpose of CE safety requirements EN60065.

They also provide a safe, convenient and legal method of adapting a global product to the wide ranging needs of a global marketplace.

 

[Slevage]

That's my question as well. There's a lot of talk in here about regulations, UL listing failures, etc. Can someone cite a reference for any of this? Is it in the NEC, and if so, which article?

I'm a EE, too, BTW.

Not NEC, although UL and other agencies (CSA, CE) use NEC as a reference, their requirements for manufacturing products, both industrial and consumer level, are often more strict than NEC. UL is especially tough, taking creating a file for each product that comes up for certification.
They often want several samples of the product to push past the limit of destruction.

 

[Slevage]

There is the old LLC which will insulate you from personal liability. The business on the other hand....

Right on..... but not many "artisians" can afford to be a LLC, and if you become an LLC, you'll need product liability----- then the insurance companies call the shots.

 

[Slevage]

People using the old standard Heyco power cord bushing could use a regular drill, or if they were making holes in a chassis for tube sockets they probably had a Greenlee knockout punch to use.

Making a hole for the IEC connector means buying another die, that can run anywhere from $50 ~ $250 dollars. Small companies like Verellen are on top of it, but a guy in his garage doing custom builds on the side for the last thirty years probably doesn't want to buy another tool.

Lawsuits are rare for stuff like this, and some people just don't care about insurance. Just take a look at all the people who drive without insurance (where risk is huge!) Not a justification for not doing properly, but that is what I see out there.

People who drive with out insurance are either stupid or don't own anything.