The DSM crew stepped up the OmniCab to this beast.
BASS STATION - DSM & HUMBOLDT SIMPLIFIER
The old OCSD is still available and awesome.
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DI/Cabinet emulation question.
- Thread starter danomite726
- Start date
The DSM crew stepped up the OmniCab to this beast.
BASS STATION - DSM & HUMBOLDT SIMPLIFIER
The old OCSD is still available and awesome.
Guitars don't have (or need) low end. Basses do. That's a huge difference. When you mic a cab, you've got the response of the speaker (which cuts low end), the mic (which isn't kind to the low end), and you're missing the port output - it's very messy. Put that through another speaker (the PA's subs) and the low end just isn't very solid. I give the FOH guy my pedalboard output (I don't carry an amp). I don't have a full speaker emulator - I don't want to emulate the low end of a speaker cabinet - that's going the wrong way. I do, however, tame the high end - that part of what the speaker does is a positive. My cabinet "emulator" is a Broughton low pass filter. Works great, and if it's not quite the right rolloff, there's a knob that you can twist and get is just right. Simple and effective.
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During a recent foray into IEMs, I tried a bunch of camp/cab emulation devices and decided the best was just a graphic EQ pedal. The Q-strip with the HPF and LPF on isn't bad either, but I got a better and more controllable sound from just the EQ pedal. None of the others worked as I liked. That is, unless you like SVT emulation, which is what every one of them sound like.
Kemper... Game set and match.
Profile your amp, at a few preferred settings, with your preferred method of micing it up. Then BAM, Bob's your uncle and you send that signal to the FOH. If you insist on using your rig live, you send the direct signal from the Kemper (unaltered straight bass signal) right into your amp. You get to keep your amp you love, and you send the FOH guy the absolute closest possible rendition (and I promise you that if you put both in a live room at a studio and played in the control room you'd see just how amazingly close it is) to what you like to hear.
I thought they were just some guitar mumbo jumbo nonsense until I gave in and tried one on my bass. They are legitimately a game-changer.
Profile your amp, at a few preferred settings, with your preferred method of micing it up. Then BAM, Bob's your uncle and you send that signal to the FOH. If you insist on using your rig live, you send the direct signal from the Kemper (unaltered straight bass signal) right into your amp. You get to keep your amp you love, and you send the FOH guy the absolute closest possible rendition (and I promise you that if you put both in a live room at a studio and played in the control room you'd see just how amazingly close it is) to what you like to hear.
I thought they were just some guitar mumbo jumbo nonsense until I gave in and tried one on my bass. They are legitimately a game-changer.
[QUOTE="BogeyBass, post: 23643944, member: 176286"
why " emulate" a cab when there is a dam cab on the stage LOL[/QUOTE]
Because you will be going DI to FOH and there won't otherwise be any cabinet emulation. I prefer DI to using a microphone as:
1. I can adjust the EQ and volume on stage to suit me, independent of FOH, assuming I am going pre-EQ.
2. The sound in the PA is the bass, not bass plus kick drum and everything else that may be loud and omni-directional. If other signals are loud I don't want to have to have the bass amp on stage loud enough to get clean bass.
3. The guitarist can't kick over a DI so easily.
Ideally, for me, the amp is pretty flat and I can use cabinet emulation from effects, but I have three active DIs with speaker emulation that can run on either batteries, external wall-wart power, or phantom power, so I can split the chain at the end and I have a backup in case of failure. Technically they are all guitar cabinet simulations, but in a sense that's a bit of HPF built in
. I also have an HPF. If I could find a couple of the Award-Session MB pedals that were made specifcially for bass I'd grab one, but I've yet to see one, let alone two to provide for backup.
why " emulate" a cab when there is a dam cab on the stage LOL[/QUOTE]
Because you will be going DI to FOH and there won't otherwise be any cabinet emulation. I prefer DI to using a microphone as:
1. I can adjust the EQ and volume on stage to suit me, independent of FOH, assuming I am going pre-EQ.
2. The sound in the PA is the bass, not bass plus kick drum and everything else that may be loud and omni-directional. If other signals are loud I don't want to have to have the bass amp on stage loud enough to get clean bass.
3. The guitarist can't kick over a DI so easily.
Ideally, for me, the amp is pretty flat and I can use cabinet emulation from effects, but I have three active DIs with speaker emulation that can run on either batteries, external wall-wart power, or phantom power, so I can split the chain at the end and I have a backup in case of failure. Technically they are all guitar cabinet simulations, but in a sense that's a bit of HPF built in
. I also have an HPF. If I could find a couple of the Award-Session MB pedals that were made specifcially for bass I'd grab one, but I've yet to see one, let alone two to provide for backup.[QUOTE="BogeyBass, post: 23643944, member: 176286"
why " emulate" a cab when there is a dam cab on the stage LOL[/QUOTE]
Because you will be going DI to FOH and there won't otherwise be any cabinet emulation. I prefer DI to using a microphone as:
1. I can adjust the EQ and volume on stage to suit me, independent of FOH, assuming I am going pre-EQ.
2. The sound in the PA is the bass, not bass plus kick drum and everything else that may be loud and omni-directional. If other signals are loud I don't want to have to have the bass amp on stage loud enough to get clean bass.
3. The guitarist can't kick over a DI so easily.
Ideally, for me, the amp is pretty flat and I can use cabinet emulation from effects, but I have three active DIs with speaker emulation that can run on either batteries, external wall-wart power, or phantom power, so I can split the chain at the end and I have a backup in case of failure. Technically they are all guitar cabinet simulations, but in a sense that's a bit of HPF built in. I also have an HPF. If I could find a couple of the Award-Session MB pedals that were made specifcially for bass I'd grab one, but I've yet to see one, let alone two to provide for backup.
why " emulate" a cab when there is a dam cab on the stage LOL[/QUOTE]
Because you will be going DI to FOH and there won't otherwise be any cabinet emulation. I prefer DI to using a microphone as:
1. I can adjust the EQ and volume on stage to suit me, independent of FOH, assuming I am going pre-EQ.
2. The sound in the PA is the bass, not bass plus kick drum and everything else that may be loud and omni-directional. If other signals are loud I don't want to have to have the bass amp on stage loud enough to get clean bass.
3. The guitarist can't kick over a DI so easily.
Ideally, for me, the amp is pretty flat and I can use cabinet emulation from effects, but I have three active DIs with speaker emulation that can run on either batteries, external wall-wart power, or phantom power, so I can split the chain at the end and I have a backup in case of failure. Technically they are all guitar cabinet simulations, but in a sense that's a bit of HPF built in
. I also have an HPF. If I could find a couple of the Award-Session MB pedals that were made specifcially for bass I'd grab one, but I've yet to see one, let alone two to provide for backup.[QUOTE="BogeyBass, post: 23643944, member: 176286"
why " emulate" a cab when there is a dam cab on the stage LOL[/QUOTE]
Because you will be going DI to FOH and there won't otherwise be any cabinet emulation. I prefer DI to using a microphone as:
1. I can adjust the EQ and volume on stage to suit me, independent of FOH, assuming I am going pre-EQ.
2. The sound in the PA is the bass, not bass plus kick drum and everything else that may be loud and omni-directional. If other signals are loud I don't want to have to have the bass amp on stage loud enough to get clean bass.
3. The guitarist can't kick over a DI so easily.
Ideally, for me, the amp is pretty flat and I can use cabinet emulation from effects, but I have three active DIs with speaker emulation that can run on either batteries, external wall-wart power, or phantom power, so I can split the chain at the end and I have a backup in case of failure. Technically they are all guitar cabinet simulations, but in a sense that's a bit of HPF built in. I also have an HPF. If I could find a couple of the Award-Session MB pedals that were made specifcially for bass I'd grab one, but I've yet to see one, let alone two to provide for backup.
why " emulate" a cab when there is a dam cab on the stage LOL[/QUOTE]
Because you will be going DI to FOH and there won't otherwise be any cabinet emulation. I prefer DI to using a microphone as:
1. I can adjust the EQ and volume on stage to suit me, independent of FOH, assuming I am going pre-EQ.
2. The sound in the PA is the bass, not bass plus kick drum and everything else that may be loud and omni-directional. If other signals are loud I don't want to have to have the bass amp on stage loud enough to get clean bass.
3. The guitarist can't kick over a DI so easily.
Ideally, for me, the amp is pretty flat and I can use cabinet emulation from effects, but I have three active DIs with speaker emulation that can run on either batteries, external wall-wart power, or phantom power, so I can split the chain at the end and I have a backup in case of failure. Technically they are all guitar cabinet simulations, but in a sense that's a bit of HPF built in
. I also have an HPF. If I could find a couple of the Award-Session MB pedals that were made specifcially for bass I'd grab one, but I've yet to see one, let alone two to provide for backup.[QUOTE="BogeyBass, post: 23643944, member: 176286"
why " emulate" a cab when there is a dam cab on the stage LOL[/QUOTE]
Because you will be going DI to FOH and there won't otherwise be any cabinet emulation. I prefer DI to using a microphone as:
1. I can adjust the EQ and volume on stage to suit me, independent of FOH, assuming I am going pre-EQ.
2. The sound in the PA is the bass, not bass plus kick drum and everything else that may be loud and omni-directional. If other signals are loud I don't want to have to have the bass amp on stage loud enough to get clean bass.
3. The guitarist can't kick over a DI so easily.
Ideally, for me, the amp is pretty flat and I can use cabinet emulation from effects, but I have three active DIs with speaker emulation that can run on either batteries, external wall-wart power, or phantom power, so I can split the chain at the end and I have a backup in case of failure. Technically they are all guitar cabinet simulations, but in a sense that's a bit of HPF built in. I also have an HPF. If I could find a couple of the Award-Session MB pedals that were made specifcially for bass I'd grab one, but I've yet to see one, let alone two to provide for backup.
why " emulate" a cab when there is a dam cab on the stage LOL[/QUOTE]
Because you will be going DI to FOH and there won't otherwise be any cabinet emulation. I prefer DI to using a microphone as:
1. I can adjust the EQ and volume on stage to suit me, independent of FOH, assuming I am going pre-EQ.
2. The sound in the PA is the bass, not bass plus kick drum and everything else that may be loud and omni-directional. If other signals are loud I don't want to have to have the bass amp on stage loud enough to get clean bass.
3. The guitarist can't kick over a DI so easily.
Ideally, for me, the amp is pretty flat and I can use cabinet emulation from effects, but I have three active DIs with speaker emulation that can run on either batteries, external wall-wart power, or phantom power, so I can split the chain at the end and I have a backup in case of failure. Technically they are all guitar cabinet simulations, but in a sense that's a bit of HPF built in
. I also have an HPF. If I could find a couple of the Award-Session MB pedals that were made specifcially for bass I'd grab one, but I've yet to see one, let alone two to provide for backup.
Speaker level DI may do the right job for your demands.
I did it this way for many years with my 70s SVT with best outcome possible.
Over the years there had been a few sound guys who had been quite sceptical vers speaker level DI with an tube head SVT but, once they listened to the FOH sound they where all convinced that its a very good idea just doing it this way.
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why try to emulate an SVT with something such as Line6 when the "beast" is allready on stage?
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The most part of disadvantage coming along with any(?) modelling concept I personally dislike is the noticable absence of most of the part time variant properties that come (almost always) naturally along with "real" components, for example such as "randomly" saturated tube power amp.
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I'm not sure I understand how random anything is desirable, in regards to tone. Personally, I try to be as rock-steady as possible with my tone.
Care to enlighten me with what I'm missing?
Its an essential part of science of system information theory.
"Random" in this regard means that a "musical" sounding property is not time invariant any more.
In real practice this means that a profile can't look into future playing notes to predict time variant sound properties.
Either way, nor any modelling nor any profiling tool will ever emulate the baffle of a fridge.
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Who says tubes are better at generating randomness?
There is no evidence in that.
This thread is about cabinet emulation anyhow, and IRs use convolution to accurately model the original cabinet sound.
Kemper is good about capturing your own favorite cabinet IR, with a mic and placement you like, and letting you play it out live.
There is no evidence in that.
This thread is about cabinet emulation anyhow, and IRs use convolution to accurately model the original cabinet sound.
Kemper is good about capturing your own favorite cabinet IR, with a mic and placement you like, and letting you play it out live.
Right on. I don't know enough to dispute you on this, so I'll nod to your guidance.
All I know is that I've profiled my old fridge (SLM era SVT-CL and 810e), my Aguilar TH 500 w/ 112DB & 112DBNT, and my '64 B15N. Then from in the control room I turned my back to the monitors and I had a hard time figuring out which was rig and which was profile.
That being said, for the OP's situation, that's the best DI method I can come up with to give him some "speaker emulation" on his DI line. Plus, he gets to keep his rig running on stage.
On the last part, if it works in an ABX trial, then it's good enough for rock and roll. And you could double that up to both solo and in a mix.
Not directed at OP: I see outlandish audiofile claims, some from Neil Young, that are not backed up by spectral analysis, let alone testing by humans. Having tried some testing of my own for various things (pitch, timing, etc.) I don't even believe my own subjective judgment of my own abilities now. Certainly my subjective assessment of my woodworking abilities always exceeds reality!
You could build noise ('randomness') into a model. If you fed a system the same input each time you could even determine the extent of that noise, given a certain tolerance on sound reproduction and capture equipment. So modelling can do this. There have also been modellers (Peavey did or does) that work at a component level. A speaker is pretty complex so you'd probably want to model that as more of a black box based on empirical measurement, and possibly in a similar manner for tubes etc., but you could build noise characteristics in, and then build an entire circuit. I did play with the Peavey thing around a decade ago, but mostly made fantasy amps that sounded terrible.
That's right.
see also posts #30 and #32
And if I understand the OP right he still intends to use his tube heads as an essential sound performing part on stage.
If I was in OP's shoes I'd give a "simple" speaker level DI a chance in first place.
Tools such as Kemper or Line6 is a way more expensive investment than a simple and cheap Speaker level DI such as Palmer Pan 01.
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) but our live sound is great.
I mean that's just not something a lot of us can do. Even if we had some one we're lucky to get more than a line-check during a 15 minute change over.
