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DI Level Control - Necessary? New Poll

Is a DI Level control an important feature, based on your experience?

  • Yes, I use a DI level often and consider it a must have on a high end amplifier.

    Votes: 99 48.3%

  • No. I've never needed to adjust my DI level and could care less if an amp has one or not.

    Votes: 83 40.5%

  • What's a DI level control?

    Votes: 23 11.2%
  • Total voters
    205
Status
Not open for further replies.
#121
R Baer said:
Just a bit of info here. My engineer is quite the purist and the line he likes to use on me quite often is always "Anything in the signal path affects the tone. The purest path is always the simplest path". His feeling is that if the Di is designed right in the first place, any FOH engineer will be able to deal with the output level of the DI. Sure, you can ask a sound guy "Is my DI level ok?. Do you need more, or less?", but if you never bring it up and just present him with a usable DI level in the first place, the issue should never really come up.

And yes, while we are talking about just a few bucks in components, keep in mind I'm not just buying a couple buck worth of parts, I'm buying everything in multiples of 100, sometimes more if it's a special order part. A few bucks here, a few bucks there, really starts adding up when you are talking about a product with hundreds of components. We are trying to get the price on this amp as low as we can, given the design and every little bit helps.

I am genuinely interested to see if this is a feature guys are actually using, not simply a feature that players would like to have. The couple times I was asked about my DI level and I told the sound person that I didn't have any way to control it, he was like "No problem". So, in my experience, it's never been a feature that seems overly useful, as I've never owned an amp that didn't have a usable DI level.
Click to expand...

The problem being that sometimes you get a FOH engineer, sometimes you just get a guy at the board.

The last nonsensical encounter I had with DI level I was using my Yamaha PB1 preamp into a Crown Drivecore amp. The dude at the board came by and plugged into my DI, saw where the level was set (around 8 o'clock) and said he likes to start off with it set at twelve.
:hmm:

I've only gigged with this pre for around ten years. I told him the output was pretty hot so try it where I have it, he insisted, I set it at 12 o'clock. He went back to the board, punched me in and asked me to play. Damn near knocked him out of his seat.

"You want to back that off a bit?".

"Sure".
:hmm:

I told ya so. If it were me and someone told me about a hot DI, I can't imagine why I wouldn't pad the input and bring the channel up slowly.

So DI level IMO is in theory unnecessary but real world you sometimes deal with the dude at the board. Be a bud and save them from themselves.
:cool:
 
#122
Kwesi said:
It's nice to have if you're doing everything yourself. When I use my amp for my Youtube videos (I only did on a few) I preferred controlling the input from my amp as opposed to the audio interface because the taper was smoother.

Also, on stage, it's nice to be able to get a little bit more volume without having to worry whether or not the soundman is gonna freak on you.
Click to expand...

You're adjusting your FOH from the stage vs. having the soundperson do it?
 
#123
agedhorse said:
This is a good example of me working is a different world. I don't see anything like this with the gigs I work. As long as the DI is within the window of acceptable (pretty wide for pro consoles...) I like to see between -45 and +4dBu which gives me plenty of latitude to accomodate real world increases in stage volume without fear of issues.

Our DI's fall right into this window (the mic level is around -30dBu and the line level is around +4dBu nominal) because that's what just about any (real) pro audio guy is going to be looking for. We have a pro audio (at least in the touring world) friendly reputation because I've been sitting in that guy's seat and know what he wants to see from the DI without him having to say a single word. You should play and he should smile, bass channel done, move on to next channel. ;)
Click to expand...

I've never had a problem with a competent soundperson. Never had to make a suggestion on how to handle the signal coming from my DI. It's the other guys who I've had issues with. And often they tend to ignore suggestions. Go figure.

BTW a good friend of mine just got a Streamliner 600 and I can't recall when I've seen him that happy with his amplification. So he also bought a 900. Nice job.
:D
 
#125
R Baer said:
There's also a couple very good reasons why some sound engineers insist on using their own DI. First off, they know their gear and are familiar with its operation and sound. In short, it's easy and they know what they are dealing with. Second, if you are using a separate DI, and your amp goes down for any reason, the show still goes on. Taking the DI from the amp takes away that safety net and a lot of engineers would rather be safe than sorry.
Click to expand...
I don't think those are good reasons at all. They are just excuses for being lazy about how much work they have to put into the bass sound. They know they can take the clean bass guitar and quickly turn it into whatever they like and that's good enough for them.

If you're buying a boooootique bass amp you want that lazy sound guy to have no excuse for insisting on using his DI.
 
#126
Downunderwonder said:
I don't think those are good reasons at all. They are just excuses for being lazy about how much work they have to put into the bass sound. They know they can take the clean bass guitar and quickly turn it into whatever they like and that's good enough for them.
Click to expand...

I don't think it's really a matter of being lazy. Some of these guys have to do sound for three or four acts a night and it's quite possible some bands don't even get a sound check. Keep in mind, this guy has no clue what your band sounds like, more or less what kind of tone you are after. Hopefully, by the second or third song, he's got an idea what your band is all about. As far as the club is concerned, the FOH's main job is to get each band up and running on time and make each band sound as good as he can. This often means he's going to use the same DI on every bass, same mic on every guitar cab, same mic on every kick drum, etc...
 
#127
R Baer said:
I don't think it's really a matter of being lazy. Some of these guys have to do sound for three or four acts a night and it's quite possible some bands don't even get a sound check. Keep in mind, this guy has no clue what your band sounds like, more or less what kind of tone you are after. Hopefully, by the second or third song, he's got an idea what your band is all about. As far as the club is concerned, the FOH's main job is to get each band up and running on time and make each band sound as good as he can. This often means he's going to use the same DI on every bass, same mic on every guitar cab, same mic on every kick drum, etc...
Click to expand...

15 minute set change, at it's best...

4 minutes for the band to vacate the stage. That means throwing stuff into the wings.
6 minutes for the next band to set up. Ever seen a drummer set up in 6 minutes? I haven't.
5 minutes to fully sound check, including monitor mixes.

Possible? Yes. Fun? Yes.

Are you really gonna suggest using a DI that I haven't line checked? You aren't my friend any more.

And the obligatory :D :D :P
 
#131
I was a very happy Markbass LMII user for awhile. But the more places I played, with a very wide spectrum of sound systems, I started to realize all mixing desks/sound engineers are not created equal. I've had several sound guys tell me they wish I could give them a stronger DI signal. Maybe their stuff was cheap, maybe they were inexperienced sound guys, but for whatever reason, I upgraded to the LMIII for the DI output control. It gives me the flexibility to help the sound guy compensate for his limitations.
 
#132
I really appreciate everyone's feedback on this. Seems like it's split pretty even between those who use a DI Level and those who don't. A lot of those that are using the control, do so pretty infrequently. I'm also guessing that of those who do use the control on occasion, FOH would probably have no issues with their amp, if they didn't have a control at all in the first place. There does seem to be some amps out there that were designed with very hot DI output levels and those users need that level control to present a usable signal to the board.

On amps like the Genz-Benz, they are presenting both mic and line level, so you have all your bases covered. Other amps out there are just presenting a mic level signal, so on those amps, it's probably an unnecessary control, as any FOH would be able to deal with a mic level signal. So, the conclusion would be that the importance of a DI Level control depends on how hot the DI signal is on each individual amp. On amps with a very hot, or line level out, it is a needed control and on an amp with mic level out, not so useful.

Thanks again!
 
#133
R Baer said:
I really appreciate everyone's feedback on this. Seems like it's split pretty even between those who use a DI Level and those who don't. A lot of those that are using the control, do so pretty infrequently. I'm also guessing that of those who do use the control on occasion, FOH would have no issues with their amp, if they didn't have a control at all in the first place. There do seem to be some amps out there that were designed with very hot DI output levels and those users need that level control to present a usable signal to the board.

On amps like the Genz-Benz, they are presenting both mic and line level, so you have all your bases covered. Other amps out there are just presenting a mic level signal, so on those amps, it's probably an unnecessary control, as any FOH would be able to deal with a mic level signal. So, the conclusion would be that the importance of a DI Level control depends on how hot the DI signal is on each individual amp. On amps with a very hot, or line level out, it is a needed control and on an amp with mic level out, not so useful.

Thanks again!
Click to expand...

I cannot disagree with this at all. And I must say again, it's good to see someone in your shoes doing a bit of research like this. I can't wait to get to try out your amp :D
 
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