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DI & Mic’ing an Amp

will503

will503

Nov 13, 2020
131
185
Portland, OR
#1
So, gear-wise I’m currently working w/ a Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 and a Quilter Bass Block 800 w/ their BassDock 12.
Using GarageBand on an iPad.
I’d like to start looking into mic’ing the amp simultaneously w/ a DI. Obviously for that I’ll need a mic, stand, and the XLR.
I guess my question is, I have to have a separate DI box to do that, right?
 
#2
You can use the Scarlett for mic + bass at the same time.
No DI needed the scarlett can take a bass straight in.

But - A problem you'll have is phase of the DI versus MIC. They both don't hit the DAW at the same time. It can lead to comb filtering which makes the bass and other tone sound hollow and weak. You have to shift and pull the tracks in phase, or use a phase shift plugin.

The best approach is to DI record your track, then re-amp it. Re-amp means to playback your recorded track through your amp and then record it on a mic. You'll have a lot more control over the sound as you can listen and adjust the amp at the same time.
 
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#3
Your Quilter has a line out. You don't need a direct box unless you want to bypass the quilter altogether for some reason. just plug the quilter's line out into one channel of your DAW and a mic into the other channel.

yes, you may run into phase problems as the mic signal will be a tiny bit "behind" the DI signal. If it sounds weird, you can zoom in on the waveforms and nudge the mic signal so it "lines up" with the DI signal.
 
#4
Keep in mind that phase is a factor of both time and frequency. Nudging one track to better align with a specific point of another may help with phase correlation, but the only way to have two tracks perfectly in-phase is if the tracks are identical which would only create more volume (so what's the point?). Try flipping phase, or manually rotating phase after aligning the two tracks. The point of phase rotation where it sounds the loudest is likely the most in phase, but the "correct" phase correlation is simply where it sounds best to your ears. I'm a big fan of using Sound Radix Auto Align for this task as it's easy to use, fast, and consistently sounds better than when I do it manually.
 
#5
Thanks for all the advice!

The only thing I’m confused about is, when I DI the amp (Line Out -> Focusrite’s Input 1) I have to unplug the speaker cable (or else I get sound out of the cab and none in the DI)—so, I don’t know how I could mic the amp right now at the same time.

Am I missing something simple here?
 
#6
will503 said:
Thanks for all the advice!

The only thing I’m confused about is, when I DI the amp (Line Out -> Focusrite’s Input 1) I have to unplug the speaker cable (or else I get sound out of the cab and none in the DI)—so, I don’t know how I could mic the amp right now at the same time.

Am I missing something simple here?
Click to expand...
The speaker out is muting the DI? Yes, it sounds like something is hooked up incorrectly. Can you post some pictures of your setup?
 
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#7
XLR goes into Line Out and the 1/4” goes into Input 1 of the Focusrite.
(It’s an XLR to 1/4” cable, to be clear.)
 

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#8
Am I right in understanding from your description and your photo that you have it setup thusly:
  • 1/4" TS cable leaves your bass and goes into the instrument input on your Quilter
  • The speaker out from the Quilter is connected to a bass cabinet
  • The line out from the Quilter is connected to your Focusrite using an XLR to 1/4" (presumably TRS) cable
  • Related question: Why are you using XLR to TRS as opposed to a standard XLR cable?
  • As long as the line out is in-use the speaker output does not work and no sound comes from the cabinet
  • If the line out is not in-use then the speaker works just fine
Do I have all of that right?
 
#9
Almost, yeah! Thanks for being so thorough.

Re: the XLR to 1/4,” I didn’t realize at the time that a Focusrite accepts an XLR into the input. (Very new to this home recording stuff.)

Re: your last two bullet points it’s the opposite, if I read it correctly: When the speaker out is connected to the cab, and the Line Out is running into the Focusrite, I get sound from the speaker but not in GarageBand.
When the speaker out is detached then all’s good, soundwise, in GarageBand.
 
#10
will503 said:
When the speaker out is connected to the cab, and the Line Out is running into the Focusrite, I get sound from the speaker but not in GarageBand.When the speaker out is detached then all’s good, soundwise, in GarageBand.
Click to expand...

When you say that you're not getting sound from GarageBand do you mean that there is no signal arriving at GarageBand, or do you simply mean that you can't hear it?
 
#12
will503 said:
Y’know, I’d have to try it out again, but my bass is in the shop till 1/30.
I could always PM ya or post here when I’m back in action, if you don’t mind.
I’m sure it’s a user error, haha.
Click to expand...
Just post here, and in the meantime some savvy user might have a solution for you to try. User error is often the cause, which is always a best case scenario because the solution is typically free and comes with the added benefit of learning something. It's sometimes a tough pill to swallow unfortunately. Maybe you'll get "lucky" and something will be broken :p (just kidding, haha)
 
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#16
Cool. I went through a lot of this confusing setup stuff when I switched from 4-track cassette to DAW. I gave up many times and almost sold my Scarlett and went back to the 4-track. Then I went for one last push and got over the hump.

I have never used garageband, but in Ableton/Reaper/Pro Tools, the first thing I had to learn was how to set up the interface to receive the signals from inputs1-2 & midi. It seems so easy to me now, but all the stuff about arming channels, routing signals, monitoring, etc took a while to become familiar. I still make bone-headed signal chain errors and wonder why I am not getting sound from this, that, or midi.

I am not sure, but it might be as simple as your signal from the DI is not properly connected in the software. Are you selecting/monitoring that channel properly? Also, you are best off using XLR to XLR and not converting to TRS (or if you do make sure you are using a TRS cable and not TS).

Other things that vexed me early on: the importance of using TRS cables in any balanced signal routing. How to monitor and setup MIDI channels when using multiple controllers.
 
#17
will503 said:
Almost, yeah! Thanks for being so thorough.

Re: the XLR to 1/4,” I didn’t realize at the time that a Focusrite accepts an XLR into the input. (Very new to this home recording stuff.)

Re: your last two bullet points it’s the opposite, if I read it correctly: When the speaker out is connected to the cab, and the Line Out is running into the Focusrite, I get sound from the speaker but not in GarageBand.
When the speaker out is detached then all’s good, soundwise, in GarageBand.
Click to expand...

Don't change your XLR -> TR (1/4") cable. The Focusrite XLR input can only accept a microphone level. The 1/4" input is the only way to connect a line level, so you are exactly correct in using that cable.

What is your method of monitoring the output from Garageband?
 
#18
Tosh said:
Don't change your XLR -> TR (1/4") cable. The Focusrite XLR input can only accept a microphone level. The 1/4" input is the only way to connect a line level, so you are exactly correct in using that cable.
Click to expand...
The DI from the OP’s amp should not be putting out a line level signal, so using XLR or TRS will make no functional difference and either would work identically.
 
#20
Tosh said:
From what I understand, the output of the XLR jack is a line level:

"Line Output:XLR, quasi-balanced, 400 ohms, 1V full scale"

though I'm not sure what "quasi-balanced" means
Click to expand...
Why would an amp’s DI put out a line level signal? That makes no sense to me. The vast majority of use cases for a bass amp’s DI is to connect to sources that want less than line level. Quilter does some weird things that have always confused me, so I can’t be totally surprised if that continues to be the case.
 

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