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DI pedal vs DI from amp?

I

Iheartreverb

Oct 31, 2013
173
67
#1
Hi all,

I was just wondering what everyone's preference is and why for both recording and live whether you get your DI signal from amp or pedal/ separate DI box

Curious really for two reasons, firstly what is the advantage of a separate pedal or unit? and why do you not want (or need) your amp as part of equation?
The only comment I've heard is that a pedal or box would still work obviously if your amp went down mid gig.

Recently my band did a live recording in a studio so to avoid bleed through on a mic' cab I used my MXR M80 which is always on anyway as an EQ before I hit the amp.
The result was good once mixed but I was still left thinking how much of the equation my amp (Orange TB500) is to my usual sound (Rickenbacker 4003).
I don't use the amp DI as it is too hot for the desk. I'm thinking of buying a junction box to sit between the amp and cab to DI out of so that the desk gets the same as my sound in the room.

Any and all thoughts appreciated
 
#2
I use a Radial JDI for recording and for live use. I use the stage rig for my own benefit. The tone you can create from the pedalboard and/or just your bass is usually sufficient for what I do. The sound of your amp is based on what you hear on stage - in a live setting, this is sometimes not very useful for the sound man. If there is a specific vibe you want to capture from your bass head, go ahead and do it. I believe amp heads are not isolated transformers and therefore are prone to humming and sending bad signals to sound guys. Separate DI's are isolated and generally much quieter. However, I have never had an issue with an amp DI before. So I am not sure where some of these problems come from. For me, a separate DI means my stage rig can die and the sound man can pump me through a monitor and allow me to keep playing. Not an ideal situation, but it has come in handy a few times.

For the DI between the amp and cab, the Radial JDI and Countryman can do this. HOWEVER, the wattage that can pass through is about 300 watts. Most bass amps are putting out much more and the chances of frying something are far too high for this to be a viable option. Check the manuals of the products and do some reading.
 
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#3
As a sound guy I try not to use the DI on your amp. There are a couple of reasons. Chief among them is - I don't want to accidentally fry your head if someone puts phantom power on the wrong channel... Your amp may or may not be able to deal and I don't want to be the one to find out. If your rig is racked up, then I'm even less inclined unless it is a very shallow rack. I don't want to be digging around looking for pre/post, di level, lift, etc and guessing at the right settings.

If you are a client or known to me... Or you provided an input list and stage plot well ahead of the gig - then we'll talk. I am more inclined to put a mic on you and also take a DI prior to your amp if there is something special you need to present. 99% of the time, it's one of my type 85's before your amp and it sounds great out front.

My approach is also colored by the small festival settings I do. 60 to 90 minute sets, multiple acts, single stages, quick change overs... the environment demands a certain level of "get up, get it done, get 'er off stage, collect your beer tickets and check"... If we have more time, I can be flexible and less the nazi stage manager / sound guy...
 
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#6
I like to use a separate DI with a true ground lift. Many DIs on amps do not completely kill ground loops based on the topology that is chosen. I had a room where I had to add a transformer in series with an amp's DI before I could kill a ground loop.

I use the Sonic Nuance TDI TDI - Tuner + DI inserted into an amp's effects loop if I use an amp. I use it standalone if I don't use an amp (which is 99% of the time).
 
#7
I've been wondering the same... I like the sound of my ampeg svt-7 pro head and was going to put a b3k in front of it. In fact, I just ordered one online. I would rather do that than b7k because it's cheaper, and I don't want or need more EQ knobs unless I used it as a DI. But the head has ground lift and -40db pad, and even pre/post EQ switch. so I don't see why I should get a DI box like the b7k.
 
#8
sqlb3rn said:
I've been wondering the same... I like the sound of my ampeg svt-7 pro head and was going to put a b3k in front of it. In fact, I just ordered one online. I would rather do that than b7k because it's cheaper, and I don't want or need more EQ knobs unless I used it as a DI. But the head has ground lift and -40db pad, and even pre/post EQ switch. so I don't see why I should get a DI box like the b7k.
Click to expand...

With the B7k you would have a backup DI, an option between the sound of B7K and your bass or the tone of your B7K/bass and 7PRO. More options never hurt, but I see the point of simplicity.
 
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#9
Gearhead17 said:
I use a Radial JDI for recording and for live use. I use the stage rig for my own benefit. The tone you can create from the pedalboard and/or just your bass is usually sufficient for what I do. The sound of your amp is based on what you hear on stage - in a live setting, this is sometimes not very useful for the sound man. If there is a specific vibe you want to capture from your bass head, go ahead and do it. I believe amp heads are not isolated transformers and therefore are prone to humming and sending bad signals to sound guys. Separate DI's are isolated and generally much quieter. However, I have never had an issue with an amp DI before. So I am not sure where some of these problems come from. For me, a separate DI means my stage rig can die and the sound man can pump me through a monitor and allow me to keep playing. Not an ideal situation, but it has come in handy a few times.

For the DI between the amp and cab, the Radial JDI and Countryman can do this. HOWEVER, the wattage that can pass through is about 300 watts. Most bass amps are putting out much more and the chances of frying something are far too high for this to be a viable option. Check the manuals of the products and do some reading.
Click to expand...
I feel pretty similar about it. I run an xlr from my sans amp RBI to Foh. My power amp and cab are essentially just my stage monitor. And it's different from the full range signal I send to foh. I use an ampeg 410he cab I put new speakers in. The cab is a sealed design which helps tremendously with eliminating muddy bass on stage. I still hear plenty enough super low content coming from the PA subs because my xlr signal is giving it to the PA but am able to keep my sound on stage tight and controlled.
 
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#10
I used to use the Direct Out on my Hartke LH1000 but when the pre-amp was repaired under warranty, for some reason, the DI would not function. I could've sent it back again. Instead I bought a Countryman DI and I route it through the effects loop and use a high quality mic cable to the mix board.

It works out well.
 
#11
I think this depends on your amp. I have an Eden with a beautiful preamp. I use the fx loop with two H9's and the built in limiter is key to tame everything before the di. I have it setup by my pedalboard on my keyboard stand and run my Ultranova into the aux inputs so the amp di is the only thing that "captures" everything as it is truly last in the chain. 99% of the time when I am in a studio or a gig with a sound engineer, they just hand me an xlr, there isn't a big discussion. I plug it into my amps di Out and Badda Bing. I get compliments all the time from these guys cuz my setup looks complicated but comes out clean. So I firmly believe some amps have quality di's built in (Eden can't be the only one) and external ones are just another gas inducing superfluous tool most people don't need.
 
#13
The last time I did some recording, I brought a Roland Bass Cube since I figured it had a DI out, which would make the engineer happy. After doing the first track, he starting shaking his head in the control room, which made me think I had butchered the bass part. Then, we did another take and he still wasn't happy then he came out to check cables. On the third take, he finally yanked the cable from the Bass Cube and told me that the DI out from the amp was way too distorted then hooked me up to a Countryman DI. Then, the engineer was happy with the sound.
After we got finished the track, he replayed the first couple of takes so I could hear what was coming from the amp. Sure enough, the Bass Cube sounded crappy, compared to the Countryman.
On the other hand, I did a Relay For Life event and as we were setting up, the sound guy came up with a cable and ask if I had a DI. I just pointed to the GK head that I had brought then he said, "perfect...the GK DI always puts out a great signel!"
 
#14
Use the best DI available at the time. If FOH provides something held together with three kinds of tape that looks like it might be a 25 year old Whirlwind knockoff we'll go with the DI in the amp (these days either an Aguilar TH or Markbass but GK's a lot in the past). If the DI is a Type 85 or better then no problem using what's provided. Mostly though the last 10 years I've just brought my own JDI or more recently the mighty REDDI. I try to understand the basics of sound reinforcement and carry the right equipment to get my sound to FOH without a lot of fuss. Having it together to be plug and play makes an ally of a competent tech and protects you somewhat from the boobs. Isn't it nice when as a bass player you get a soundman who obviously understands the fundamentals of playing bass? Soundmen feel the same way about bass players.....

Not a big fan of a preamp/DI through a bass amp going to FOH.
A) I've never believed my stage EQ through a cab tweaked for where I'm standing necessarily had anything to do with what was going to sound good out front so going post EQ seems like a bad idea.
B) Ok so you use it pre EQ. Since my amp already has an EQ stage do I really need that second EQ stage? Why not for the same price (or less) just go with a JDI? Where a preamp/DI like a Raven Labs PMB or Sans Amp Acoustic DI or whatever really shines is as a specific tool for going straight into a small PA with no bass amp on stage....where the PA is your bass amp.
 
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#15
dlb1001 said:
The last time I did some recording, I brought a Roland Bass Cube since I figured it had a DI out, which would make the engineer happy. After doing the first track, he starting shaking his head in the control room, which made me think I had butchered the bass part. Then, we did another take and he still wasn't happy then he came out to check cables. On the third take, he finally yanked the cable from the Bass Cube and told me that the DI out from the amp was way too distorted then hooked me up to a Countryman DI. Then, the engineer was happy with the sound.
After we got finished the track, he replayed the first couple of takes so I could hear what was coming from the amp. Sure enough, the Bass Cube sounded crappy, compared to the Countryman.
On the other hand, I did a Relay For Life event and as we were setting up, the sound guy came up with a cable and ask if I had a DI. I just pointed to the GK head that I had brought then he said, "perfect...the GK DI always puts out a great signel!"
Click to expand...

We are just starting to do some real recording and I just took the DI from my MB Fusion 500 into the DAW for rehearsal last night (getting everyone used to playing with headphones). I did a quick rough mix of one song today and the DI signal from the GK is super clean and way better than I expected with my wunkay!
 
#17
For live use I almost always use the DI from the amp because it is an easier setup. I know that it can handle phantom power and I am lazy. I love having a real sound man and want to do the minimum amount of work.

When I am running sound from stage (90% of the time), I use a very very short mic cord from the DI out of my amp to the mixer.

That said, I always have a Countryman in my gig bag as a backup, and will use it if asked. And if the soundman prefers his DI, I will use that.

At one venue, they take the DI out from my amp into another DI, and then to the FOH. Not sure why, I have never thought to ask.
 
#18
seanm said:
For live use I almost always use the DI from the amp because it is an easier setup. I know that it can handle phantom power and I am lazy. I love having a real sound man and want to do the minimum amount of work.

When I am running sound from stage (90% of the time), I use a very very short mic cord from the DI out of my amp to the mixer.

That said, I always have a Countryman in my gig bag as a backup, and will use it if asked. And if the soundman prefers his DI, I will use that.

At one venue, they take the DI out from my amp into another DI, and then to the FOH. Not sure why, I have never thought to ask.
Click to expand...
Pretty much the same here.. only Ampeg SCRDI as backup for my SVT7Pro, and I also carry an old Whirlwind EDB-1 as a backup for the backup :)
 
#19
4Mal said:
As a sound guy I try not to use the DI on your amp. There are a couple of reasons. Chief among them is - I don't want to accidentally fry your head if someone puts phantom power on the wrong channel... Your amp may or may not be able to deal and I don't want to be the one to find out.
Click to expand...

This is something a bass player should definitely know about his amp. Reading this last month I realized I didn't know about my Aguilar TH350. Finally heard back from Aguilar that seeing phantom power will not hurt it. Not a big deal with a pro tech on a pro rig but you get into a dive with a guy who's not great giving you a lousy DI and coming straight outta the amp might be the least unattractive of your combined options.
 

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