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DI: Pre or Post

#181
It's just the way you talk about soundmens , stage volume and how nobody understand "Your" sound........ find it a bit ........ strange.

I play in a lot of situations where I really have to be low volume and I can't imagine someone with the; " That's my sound , put a mike in front" attitude , would not last an hour in those condition......
 
#182
fokof said:
It's just the way you talk about soundmens , stage volume and how nobody understand "Your" sound........ find it a bit ........ strange.

I play in a lot of situations where I really have to be low volume and I can't imagine someone with the; " That's my sound , put a mike in front" attitude , would not last an hour in those condition......
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Well, I guess I'm fortunate that in most situations, I'm in control of my sound, and I don't have to do things the way the soundman wants to do them if I don't like them.

But I'll tell you, by and large I have gotten enthusiasm from soundmen when I come in and want to mix it up. Occasionally I will run into a soundman who doesn't get it and has to be coerced. But you don't have to be nasty about it. I'm a very friendly talker-inner. And I'm also not completely anal about it. Like a gig a couple weeks ago the guy wanted to run a DI as well, and I let him, even though I don't want one anymore. I told him he'll be turning it off 10 minutes into soundcheck, and I was right, and he was using a Countryman 85, which is a terrific DI, and bailing on it in favor of a 57 in front of an SVT cab ;)
 
#183
SwamiRob said:
I'd sooner damage my ear drums then not enjoy music. I'd rather get old and have a naff liver or two from drinking and a bit of a ringing in my ear and have enjoyed rocking out a bit, I don't mind the concequences of enjoying myself.
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Sorry to lump your sentences, but I'm trying to make a point. I had the similar view when I was young. Now I'm 50 and have tinnitus so severe in my right ear, that sleeping becomes difficult. The 24/7 ringing is from rocking out, a LOT!! I used to love listening to music loud for enjoyment. Now I rarely sit and listen to music at all. Because of hearing damage, I no longer enjoy casual listening the way I once did. I still perform, (thank God for IEM's) but the damage is done permanently. What I wouldn't give for that ringing to stop for even a minute. I regret the lack of respect I gave my hearing when I was young, for now as long as I live, I will have that reminder 24/7....
 
#184
Wow, sorry to hear that, Jerry. I hope maybe some people will learn from it. But young people being who they are, it's not always easy to convince them they're not indestructible. Trust us old farts...you're not!
 
#185
I've read a fair amount of the string and many good points are made. Since you asked, I run my house feed post eq through the DI on my Trace Elliot AH300-12 head. My pedal board (which includes a BBE Sonic Stomp) is in front of the amp, not in the fx loop, and the dual compressors on the TE impact the signal going to the house. Therefore, the sound of my amp is (pretty much) the sound I'm getting out of the mains. In most of the bars we play, you can "feel" the house sound from the stage, so I know if I need to tweak anything to get the tone I like. Plus, I play with a wireless unit and I travel out to the front during sound check to see if my tone is what I want. Yeah, I'm both a tone snob and a control freak, so while the soundman may control my overall volume, I tell him to set it flat and I control the rest.

Great thread on the topic, thanks to all who've shared...
 
#187
JimmyM said:
Well, I guess I'm fortunate that in most situations, I'm in control of my sound, and I don't have to do things the way the soundman wants to do them if I don't like them.
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That's exactly what I mean by ; very strange way of seeing things.
Usually , I work WITH the people around me not AGAINST them.
I find that a very bizarre attitude , but eh ! , if it works for you......

Me too I'm always in a complete control of my sound ; My fingers.

JimmyM said:
But I'll tell you, by and large I have gotten enthusiasm from soundmen when I come in and want to mix it up. Occasionally I will run into a soundman who doesn't get it and has to be coerced. But you don't have to be nasty about it. I'm a very friendly talker-inner. And I'm also not completely anal about it. Like a gig a couple weeks ago the guy wanted to run a DI as well, and I let him, even though I don't want one anymore.
Click to expand...

That is very nice of you ! It's a start.....:p

JimmyM said:
I told him he'll be turning it off 10 minutes into soundcheck, and I was right, and he was using a Countryman 85, which is a terrific DI, and bailing on it in favor of a 57 in front of an SVT cab
Click to expand...

We probably play in VERY different situations. I play in both 8 piece , big venue gigs , and also very small trio gigs , rock , disco , top40 , jazz , R'N'B , everything......
I have to adapt to all situations , that's how I learn not to rely on amps for tone.
I don't say I have the "Absolute thruth" , but IME & IMHO , in 80% of the live situations I'm in , "less is more"
 
#189
fokof said:
That's exactly what I mean by ; very strange way of seeing things.
Usually , I work WITH the people around me not AGAINST them.
I find that a very bizarre attitude , but eh ! , if it works for you......

(snip)

We probably play in VERY different situations. I play in both 8 piece , big venue gigs , and also very small trio gigs , rock , disco , top40 , jazz , R'N'B , everything......
I have to adapt to all situations , that's how I learn not to rely on amps for tone.
I don't say I have the "Absolute thruth" , but IME & IMHO , in 80% of the live situations I'm in , "less is more"
Click to expand...
Actually, my gigs and yours aren't far off. But we do have a different way of doing things. I did the DI thing for 10 years. Wasn't that long ago, either. I don't want to do it anymore, though, and through years of hard work building myself up to where I have some control, I'm using it. Trust me...nobody ever says my sound suffers or it's difficult to EQ me. You're associating doing things differently with doing things poorly, and in my case, you're wrong about that ;)
 
#190
Jerry Ziarko said:
Sorry to lump your sentences, but I'm trying to make a point. I had the similar view when I was young. Now I'm 50 and have tinnitus so severe in my right ear, that sleeping becomes difficult. The 24/7 ringing is from rocking out, a LOT!! I used to love listening to music loud for enjoyment. Now I rarely sit and listen to music at all. Because of hearing damage, I no longer enjoy casual listening the way I once did. I still perform, (thank God for IEM's) but the damage is done permanently. What I wouldn't give for that ringing to stop for even a minute. I regret the lack of respect I gave my hearing when I was young, for now as long as I live, I will have that reminder 24/7....
Click to expand...

Over time, you'll get used to it.
 
#193
bassrique said:
Over time, you'll get used to it.
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How so? It's been going on 12 YEARS and it never seems better. A sudden bang or loud sound sets it off like someone just fired a 22cal. next to my ear. For the next few hrs., I either have diminished hearing in my right ear, or the normally constant ringing gets so loud, it can drown out normal conversation. I have to wear an ear plug when setting up near a drummer who is doing the same, just in case while I am bent over plugging something in, they don't decide to whack their snare drum. Believe me, maybe others have better luck, but I will NEVER get used to this.
 
#197
Many people slang up "tin ear" to mean tinnitus. To be clear, that's what I meant. I haven't heard silence in 20 years. I didn't get the tin at one event, though a couple events were really bad. The thing built up over time from concerts, playing in a band [damn crash symbol] and firearms and other things that go boom.

I've been using foam earplugs as well as improvised plugs to help prevent further damage. The cone-like improvised paper plugs actually work pretty darn well, but they can fall out. Cotton is junk. I've seen much better plugs [for musicians] advertised over the last few years, which is very cool.

Jerry Ziarko said:
How so? It's been going on 12 YEARS and it never seems better.
Click to expand...

A sudden bang or loud sound sets it off like someone just fired a 22cal.
Click to expand...

Just putting dishes away [the clanking] can set off my ears. Anything can mess with me. It sucks, but when I say "get used to it", I mean that we adjust over time.

Sleeping used to be a b-tch. I've bought several of those rain/surf/rainforest/white noise simulators to help drown out the ringing. That helped, but now I don't use it. Sure I sometimes fall asleep with the TV/radio on, but often I sleep w/out anything. I've had this for so long it's just part of me now. I don't think about it until a transient noise sets things off again. That's what getting "used to it" means to me.

I just went to Google because Willaim Shatner had a hard time adjusting to his tinnitus. There's a vid on YouTube where he talks about some association that helped him. I don't know how, because as far as I know, there is no cure, though I've read some interesting things about bioflavonoids.
I've been eating well and taking quality supplements [including bioflavonoids] for years. Has it helped my ears? I don't know, but I do seem to have, gotten used to it.

Oh yeah, while I was looking at the Invalid Link Removed, I saw this in the related vid area. I have no idea what the heck he's talking about, but I will get around to looking into it, even though I suspect he's full of cr@p.

My bottom line has been not to think about it when I'm trying to sleep, or any other time when I don't have to worry about loud things mucking my world up.

We really have no choice but to improvise, adapt and overcome. It's either that or unnecessary misery. I wish you the best.

Btw, I haven't played in a band for years. When I do again, it'll have to be music that isn't performed sooooo d@mn loudly. I wonder if there's any Pete Townsend advice on YouTube? I'll check for that later. .....

/ramble
 
#198
georgestrings said:
Yup - I like to be able to change things as needed without screwing the soundguy - and sending a pre signal allows me to do that... My gigging basses all sound good on their own, and I don't use effects - and besides, tone is in the hands, right??? The plus is, I almost always sound good out front, and rarely have ANY troubles with soundmen - also, I CAN play a gig with just a DI, if needed - w/out too much diffiuclty...

Of course, for those who use effects, or rely on their amp for a characteristic of their sound, my approach doesn't work so well for them...

In the end, as someone else said - if it sounds good, it is good...



- georgestrings
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What about active basses or multi-pickup basses - does this imply that we should not tweak the bass after soundcheck? I can understand not making drastic changes but what about using the bridge pickup for one song and the neck for another?

I would say we are still ok in this situation while using the pre setting because:
1) the bassist will most likely tweak the bass to sound best per song
2) whatever setting the soundman used for the first song can be used for the second song but will be changed by the bass setup change.
a) this argument has some issues I can tell already - if a frequency is boosted for the stage that is a resonant frequency for the room for example


I'm actually on the fence on pre vs post myself. There are many factors involved and most of the arguments I've read here are valid.
 
#199
I'm not even in the same field to be on the fence splitting it. Mics sound so much better for the kinda music I play, and for most of the gigs I go to see.

I'd expect anyone going for a really modern sound to go with a DI though. If I went to a Tool gig and saw a load of mics everywhere I'd be very surprised. I think their drummer has mics built into his kit too, assumabley that gets a much more direct sound that acoustics don't interfere with.

Anyway for rock stuff I think DIs sound really really weak, an amps character definitely makes rock bass sound better.
 
#200
dulouz said:
Just curious...How many of you run your bass POST EQto the PA? If so, why? If not, why not?
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I always run my DI pre EQ. Then I mic up the stage sound too. This gives the board person a good way to adjust the house mix and still blend in my stage sound as well. If it's a large stage and the drummer wants to near the bass more, I have the boardman run my bass mix to the drummers monitor with my dry DI sound just to give the drummer some more clarity. I've also used a small 100 watt single 15 as a monitor driven by my line out and placed over by the drummer too. He likes that as he can control the vol / tone of that rig himself.

I like to able to control the sound of my stage rig myself. To be honest with a Genz Benz GBE1200 and two 410 cabs, I usually don't have to use the house mix at all unless it's a really large venue.
 

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