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DI: Pre or Post

#161
Nobody likes a showoff, superkicky :D

Yeah, if I had a REDDI I'd run it pre, too. But you're way out of most of our leagues. Most of the cheapos in this thread just take the DI out of the back of their amps ;) I'd lump myself in with all the cheapos too, but I'm done with DI unless I ever decide to get a REDDI.
 
#165
ToxicAce said:
a Pre eq di kills the amp. it turns a nice svt head and an 8x10 into an expensive monitor. When i'm playing live i mike my cab and turn every thing to zero and i ask the sound man what he wants in terms of highs, mids, and lows. and tweaks it from his end.
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Welcome to the 21st century. All amps are becoming personal monitors. In my current gig, I'm the only one who has an amp (the guitard has his stack off stage). They all use personal ear monitors. Stage volume in the 20th century as a whole was far too loud. It's just not safe for your hearing. It also sounds like a bloody mess if everyone is just using their amps to push their sound through the house.

A skilled soundboard person (which I am blessed to play with most of the time) with a decent PA system can get everything sounding good through that with minimal stage volume. Mega rigs are becoming a thing of the past.

Sure we'll still have rock bands playing with full stacks in arenas, but most of that is just aesthetics. There are smaller amps now that can sound just as loud, and are far more effective for monitoring.
 
#166
I generally prefer to run post-EQ. I like having a bit of control over my general tone, plus I have a BBE Sonic Maximizer and a Symetrix 501 Compressor in the effects loop. Sound guys are usually ok with running post-EQ if it means that the signal I'm shooting them will be nice and compressed. I'm also thinking more and more about micing up my cabs.

Just my $.02.

Edit: I just looked up the schematic of my amp, and it would appear that the DI is actually BEFORE the effects loop, which seems a little silly to me. I might have to re-wire my rig so my compressor and Sonic Maximizer can get sent to the mains. That seems like a pretty silly design feature to me.
 
#167
the low one said:
When we say Pre EQ do we mean 100 % bass only with no coloration from something like a SBDI or MXR M80 with color button on etc etc. What about active basses with onboard preamps where boosts and cuts can be made?
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that still falls under pre... in my eyes, pre-eq would be everything in your chain right before it hits the input jack on your amp.

Visirale said:
I just got an avalon, so I'll be going pre from now on :).
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YES! welcome to the club ;)

JimmyM said:
Nobody likes a showoff, superkicky :D
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I have no idea what you are talking about :hiding: seriously though, a good DI makes a world of difference. there are cheaper alternatives to the REDDI ;)
 
#169
JimmyM said:
Nobody likes a showoff, superkicky :D

Yeah, if I had a REDDI I'd run it pre, too. But you're way out of most of our leagues. Most of the cheapos in this thread just take the DI out of the back of their amps ;) I'd lump myself in with all the cheapos too, but I'm done with DI unless I ever decide to get a REDDI.
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Let me get this straight....Mr. mic the cab only guy:p

The entire arguement is out the window if you drop $700 on a great DI:eyebrow:

I know you were just goofing but I couldn't resist!
 
#170
Visirale said:
Welcome to the 21st century. All amps are becoming personal monitors. In my current gig, I'm the only one who has an amp (the guitard has his stack off stage). They all use personal ear monitors. Stage volume in the 20th century as a whole was far too loud. It's just not safe for your hearing. It also sounds like a bloody mess if everyone is just using their amps to push their sound through the house.

A skilled soundboard person (which I am blessed to play with most of the time) with a decent PA system can get everything sounding good through that with minimal stage volume. Mega rigs are becoming a thing of the past.

Sure we'll still have rock bands playing with full stacks in arenas, but most of that is just aesthetics. There are smaller amps now that can sound just as loud, and are far more effective for monitoring.
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Can a good PA do tube overdrive. No it can't. If you have a any tube head be it an ampeg or a traynor it should be miked or post eq in order to get that overdrive. Also i use a fuzz pedal and it sounds like **** through a pre eq di. I also have the perfect remedy of 20th centure stage volume, EAR PLUGS.
 
#171
Visirale said:
Welcome to the 21st century. All amps are becoming personal monitors. In my current gig, I'm the only one who has an amp (the guitard has his stack off stage). They all use personal ear monitors. Stage volume in the 20th century as a whole was far too loud. It's just not safe for your hearing. It also sounds like a bloody mess if everyone is just using their amps to push their sound through the house.

A skilled soundboard person (which I am blessed to play with most of the time) with a decent PA system can get everything sounding good through that with minimal stage volume. Mega rigs are becoming a thing of the past.

Sure we'll still have rock bands playing with full stacks in arenas, but most of that is just aesthetics. There are smaller amps now that can sound just as loud, and are far more effective for monitoring.
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Where's the fun in that? ;)

You amp is only a monitor if you only want it to be a monitor.
 
#173
Yeah I play rock, and sorry to sound cliche but rock music really loses it's point if it's not loud. Leeds festival last year (which i didn't pay for for the record, wouldn't dream of doing such a thing) was unbelievabley quiet, and I had an awful time, I'd have got into listening to CDs through a car stereo more then that. Obviously it's bad for your hearing, but I'd sooner damage my ear drums then not enjoy music. I much prefer ear plugs cos stuffs still loud, but it seems to filter out alot of the odd white noises you get with people who play rock with crap equipment. But how many people would go clubbing if the music was played at a healthy volume? Pretty much none.

I do agree with you that there is definately such a thing as too loud, things do get messy and there is definately a level where things need to be left to the PA cos things sound awful.

I don't hate all the amps being used as monitors thing, or in ear monitors, quieter levels or DI heresy cos I'm old fashioned, I hate them cos they don't sound good, and I know plenty of people that agree.

Have to totally and utterly agree with Jimmy I'm afraid still. I'd rather get old and have a naff liver or two from drinking and a bit of a ringing in my ear and have enjoyed rocking out a bit, I'm pretty healthy as far as eating and trying to exercise as much as possible is concerned, and it's fair enough if you guys that look after your ears aren't bothered about the decreased lack of volume, but I don't mind the concequences of enjoying myself.
 
#174
SwamiRob said:
Yeah I play rock, and sorry to sound cliche but rock music really loses it's point if it's not loud. Leeds festival last year (which i didn't pay for for the record, wouldn't dream of doing such a thing) was unbelievabley quiet, and I had an awful time, I'd have got into listening to CDs through a car stereo more then that. Obviously it's bad for your hearing, but I'd sooner damage my ear drums then not enjoy music. I much prefer ear plugs cos stuffs still loud, but it seems to filter out alot of the odd white noises you get with people who play rock with crap equipment. But how many people would go clubbing if the music was played at a healthy volume? Pretty much none.

I do agree with you that there is definately such a thing as too loud, things do get messy and there is definately a level where things need to be left to the PA cos things sound awful.

I don't hate all the amps being used as monitors thing, or in ear monitors, quieter levels or DI heresy cos I'm old fashioned, I hate them cos they don't sound good, and I know plenty of people that agree.

Have to totally and utterly agree with Jimmy I'm afraid still. I'd rather get old and have a naff liver or two from drinking and a bit of a ringing in my ear and have enjoyed rocking out a bit, I'm pretty healthy as far as eating and trying to exercise as much as possible is concerned, and it's fair enough if you guys that look after your ears aren't bothered about the decreased lack of volume, but I don't mind the concequences of enjoying myself.
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I agree with you completely.

BUT that volume should come from PA systems. I don't think a concert is loud enough unless my intestines are rattling. I went to the Kanye West glow in the dark tour recently (please don't get off on him... his band was amazing!). Lupe Fiasco, Rihanna, and N.E.R.D. were there. I was fifth row, but it could have been much louder, especially on the bass side of things. If I'm going to an arena to see a hip hop concert, I want my brain to hurt from the bass, haha...

High stage volume isn't BAD perse, but it can make a sound man's job a little harder. It's much easier to create a good mix when you aren't competing with a sloppy stage mix.

And I love the sound of overdriven tube amps. As it has been said though, a lot of that comes from the poweramp tubes. If you want that sound to go through PA, mic the cab. A mix of that with a good pre DI signal makes for some beautiful bass in my book.
 
#176
Visirale said:
I agree with you completely.

BUT that volume should come from PA systems. I don't think a concert is loud enough unless my intestines are rattling. I went to the Kanye West glow in the dark tour recently (please don't get off on him... his band was amazing!). Lupe Fiasco, Rihanna, and N.E.R.D. were there. I was fifth row, but it could have been much louder, especially on the bass side of things. If I'm going to an arena to see a hip hop concert, I want my brain to hurt from the bass, haha...

High stage volume isn't BAD perse, but it can make a sound man's job a little harder. It's much easier to create a good mix when you aren't competing with a sloppy stage mix.

And I love the sound of overdriven tube amps. As it has been said though, a lot of that comes from the poweramp tubes. If you want that sound to go through PA, mic the cab. A mix of that with a good pre DI signal makes for some beautiful bass in my book.
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The problem with that is that you'll run into sound guys who think that ALL of the volume (On stage and FOH) should come from the PA. With my current band, the first show we played, the sound man would only let our lead guitarist turn up to 1/2 on his JCM 800. I don't mean 1/2 way up, I mean 1/2 of ONE on the knob. It sounded like he was beating a bunch of piano strings with a mop.

Personally, I don't really buy the whole "You make too much noise for the PA to cover up/your amp is throwing off the mix, so you need to turn down" argument. I don't know what kind of gigs you guys play, but in my scene, it's pretty rare for the house sound system to not be able to DESTROY our amps for volume.
 
#177
bassman1185 said:
The problem with that is that you'll run into sound guys who think that ALL of the volume (On stage and FOH) should come from the PA. With my current band, the first show we played, the sound man would only let our lead guitarist turn up to 1/2 on his JCM 800. I don't mean 1/2 way up, I mean 1/2 of ONE on the knob. It sounded like he was beating a bunch of piano strings with a mop.

Personally, I don't really buy the whole "You make too much noise for the PA to cover up/your amp is throwing off the mix, so you need to turn down" argument. I don't know what kind of gigs you guys play, but in my scene, it's pretty rare for the house sound system to not be able to DESTROY our amps for volume.
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Hear hear! I hate those manual reading soundmen who think the audience should never hear any bleed from any amps at any time. It's ridiculous. What's so bad if the first couple rows hear your amp? The only reason soundmen complain is because they're on a power trip and they think the only sound the audience should hear should come from them. But without fail, they are horrible soundmen.
 
#178
Plus without mic bleed all those live DVDs would sound PROPER boring :p

As far as stage volume is concerned, I only turn up enough to hear myself at a reasonable level with the drums, starts getting really nasty when amps start overpowering drums. Besides my head isn't powerful enough to cause that kinda horribleness even if I wanted to.
 
#179
You guys should think a little more about the people you are playing to.....
I know that arts in general is a little about personal masturbation , and I know a lot of musician who plays music only to get attention , but if you do music profesionaly, you HAVE to consider the public who will pay to hear not only you , but the band you play with.

If you always have the " I don't give a Funk about the crowd , I want to be loud/Guitared with a Marshall stack " Attitude , you won't go far......

Except if you play in ONE band , get signed , have big hits , etc etc etc.:smug:

All that to say; I think every musician should be aware of not only the music , but the sound in general.


EDIT; I'm a "freelance" player, and play all styles in all condition. I'm not an "Arena god" R'nRoller........
 
#180
fokof, what makes you think we're not? Because we have sounds we want to achieve and we want them presented to the crowd the way we want them? Sorry, not true. There's a big difference between taking two 2000w amp stacks and blasting them as loud as possible in a 50 seat bar and what's being discussed in this thread.
 

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