DI: Pre or Post

[rockstarbassist]

Post.
I run my WT550 basically flat anyhow, and the DI has a level control also, so I can adjust from there.
Just gives me more "beef", especially when using IEMs.

 

[JimmyM]

PRE. I don't know how many times it needs to be said but FOH sound and Stage/Monitor sound are TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.

No they're not. Why would you want a completely different sound in the house than in your rig? If my bass sounds completely different in the house than in my rig, there's something wrong IMHO.

 

[Eric Perry]

When we have one of our engineers with us (which is usually), I run two signals: A mic from my 4x10, and a pre-EQ DI signal. My guy blends them from the board.

My FOH tone makes me moist!!!




When we have some in-house trainwreck, I just run a post.

 

[Richard Lindsey]

No they're not. Why would you want a completely different sound in the house than in your rig? If my bass sounds completely different in the house than in my rig, there's something wrong IMHO.

Who said anything about a totally different sound (though that may at times be necessary)? The point is that the things an FOH engineer needs to get your sound, or any sound, out in the house are not necessarily the same as the things you need to do to get your sound, or any sound, on stage. Why should one assume that a given signal at your amp would sound identical to the same signal through a PA? Different amps, different cabs, different physical placement, etc.

 

[JimmyM]

I would assume it because it's true in my case. Then again, I usually set things flat or I do a 5k and up rolloff and leave everything else flat, so it's probably easier for me to have the same sound in both.

 

[Richard Lindsey]

I would assume it because it's true in my case. Then again, I usually set things flat or I do a 5k and up rolloff and leave everything else flat, so it's probably easier for me to have the same sound in both.

Sure. It might work fine for you in that case. It actually would work fine for me too in most instances. But it hardly ever worked out when I used to have to work out of town on rented gear that always seemed to require tweaking, occasionally pronounced, to get the onstage sound I wanted, and the tweaks could differ from gig to gig, depending on the gear present. Our engineer would complain about the variances in the sound he was getting, so I got into the habit of just providing the same signal (i.e., right off the bass) wherever we went.

 

[peterpalmieri]

No they're not. Why would you want a completely different sound in the house than in your rig? If my bass sounds completely different in the house than in my rig, there's something wrong IMHO.

I hate to argue but...

Each PA is going to sound different, if your playing a club with (2) 2x18 JBL subs and a line array of speakers hanging from the ceiling powered by a rack of macrotechs vs. using a mackie powered 450 and powered sub. Everything else being equal your bass will sound different.

My band uses a Bag End PA keeping my channel flat has very different results then the other 2 examples above and then you throw the room acoustics into play and you have more variables.

Jimmy I'm not saying mic'ing your cab is a bad idea or that pre or post is a better solution but in any case most FOH systems will need additional processing EQ maybe compression to make it work with the system and the room.

 

[seanm]

Pre, but it wouldn't really matter, I usually bypass the EQ section anyway.

 

[jtc_hunter]

exactly!

me too

 

[capbass]

Post, without question. If i cant trust the house guy to give me decent monitor mix i certainly am not gonna trust him with the sound of my instrument.

 

[agedhorse]

My amp is the 500H. I think it's the first bass head that Genz Benz made. I don't think my model has the line/mic level option.

The GBE-500 has a variable output level control that varies between mic and line level.

 

[agedhorse]

You guys need to work with some better sound guys.

 

[oyobass]

I do both sound and bass. As a sound guy, I want that nice punchy, clear pre-EQ sound. Otherwise I seem to get a wall of mud from the bass player's amp, just a wet noodle sound with no definition. Usually sounds decent in front of the bass cab, just needs to have some upper mids boosted radically to eliminate the muddier-than-dub sound.

As a bass player, I try to work with the sound guy to get the tone I want. I have an Ampeg SVP running into a tube power amp, both with XLR outs. The way that comes closest to the sound in my head is the pre-EQ out from the Ampeg, otherwise, the sound is dull and lifeless, because I'm using the amp EQ to compensate for, and force a decent stage sound out of, my old speaker cab.

Usually the PA and bass cabs have wildly different response curves, so will require different EQ tweaks to sound their best.

 

[JimmyM]

You guys need to work with some better sound guys.

I wish I had a choice, dude. Actually, I'd say a good 85% of the soundfolks we work with are excellent and wonderful. The other 15% are complete idiots or manual-reading audio school graduates.

 

[JimmyM]

I hate to argue but....

You wouldn't be here if that was true Just joking, dude...part of my wacky sense of humor.

Each PA is going to sound different, if your playing a club with (2) 2x18 JBL subs and a line array of speakers hanging from the ceiling powered by a rack of macrotechs vs. using a mackie powered 450 and powered sub. Everything else being equal your bass will sound different.

My band uses a Bag End PA keeping my channel flat has very different results then the other 2 examples above and then you throw the room acoustics into play and you have more variables.

Jimmy I'm not saying mic'ing your cab is a bad idea or that pre or post is a better solution but in any case most FOH systems will need additional processing EQ maybe compression to make it work with the system and the room.

I agree totally. But mic'ing and pre-EQ DI's aren't going to affect that. It might require a soundman to move a fader or a slider once in a while, sure. But what's he getting paid to do?

There's plenty of ways to amplify a bass and they're all valid. I don't get why post-EQ DI and/or micing is getting a negative reaction and so many people saying that you shouldn't do it. Not one soundman I've worked with since switching to micing has ever given me stick over it, and I've been running post-EQ DI's for 10 years and only one soundman asked me to turn it off (I refused because he was an idiot).

 

[SteveC]

Who said anything about a totally different sound (though that may at times be necessary)? The point is that the things an FOH engineer needs to get your sound, or any sound, out in the house are not necessarily the same as the things you need to do to get your sound, or any sound, on stage. Why should one assume that a given signal at your amp would sound identical to the same signal through a PA? Different amps, different cabs, different physical placement, etc.

That's what I mean.

 

[SwamiRob]

I've said it before and I'll say it again; I don't like the sound of my bass, I like the sound of my bass AND my amp. Post (When I get myself a Thunderfunk) and a mic (When I can afford one after buying the very expensive aforementioned head).

I don't really get why a post signal can't be modified in the same way a pre can. If you favour a very deep, low heavy sound and it's a little too much for the PA as a post-DI, can't that be modified by shaving some bass off the same way an overly flat sounding pre-DI can have bass added to it? I see what you pre-DI guys mean about it being a different situation through the PA but I don't get whats stopping a sound guy from modifying a post-DI in the same way he can with a pre-DI.

If I went to see a punk band (I listen to alot more then just punk before you gimmie that! ) who's bassist relies on an overdriven ampeg fridge setup, the sound is gonna be kinda strange out front if the FOH guy takes a squeeky clean pre-DI for the PA won't it?

 

[georgestrings]

Pre for me, thanks - I go out of my way to insure all my gigging basses sound good on their own, and don't use effects - so I don't really require anything other than a Pre-EQ signal to the board... As mentioned, the EQ'ing for my amp, and what the FOH needs to be effective are *usually* 2 different animals - and I like being able to tweak my amp w/out messing up the FOH mix... Probably about 1/3 of my gigs are done w/out a proper soundcheck - so I'm dialing in a good stage mix during the 1st song or 2 - I'd hate for the soundguy to be fighting those changes while also getting the FOH sound settled...



- georgestrings

 

[nemo]

I don't really get why a post signal can't be modified in the same way a pre can.

..can't that be modified by shaving some bass off the same way an overly flat sounding pre-DI can have bass added to it?

If you tweak your stage sound to deal with
1) uneven cabinet response and
2) stage acoustic (too boomy or too dry or hollow)

and use for it the amp's parametric eq's and other special circuits (timbre knob, enhance knob, VLE, VPF) you will modify the sound in such complex way that a soundman that is left with shelving bass knob and possibly para-low mid knob on his console can't really exactly counteract such your tweaks.

That's why.

To go in further detail - when going post-eq - you tweak (what you think is) YOUR sound on your rig, thinking - ok, thats my sound, lets take it to FOH..
All right, move your rig to the opposite corner of the stage and you will have to tweak it differently to get the SAME your sound. Raise the rig to milk crates and you will have to tweak it differently again to get the same YOUR sound. Take it off the crates and again - different tweaks needed to get the same your sound.

In all four cases you will send to FOH four different sounding signals of what you think is exactly your sound.

See my point?

Of course a roaring punk rig is an integral part of that guy's sound and should be channeled to FOH, no doubts, and sound guy have to deal with it.

If the amp colour is not crucial element of your sound, it is better to go pre-EQ and have freedom to use the amp controls to fight with stage acoustic deficiencies.

 

[JimmyM]

Boy, you pre-EQ folks have zero tolerance for anyone who wants to do things differently. You make it sound like we're totally screwing our live sound when nothing could be farther from the truth. Lighten up a little...it's not that serious, nor is it that dire for the soundman.