Dialing it in: preamp pedal vs. amp head

[Mike Kachman]

Please forgive me if this was a covered topic in the past. I play passive Fender P basses and run the signal through an EBS MicroBass 3 preamp pedal into my amp head (either a Mesa Boogie Subway D-800 or MarkBass Andrew Gouche).

Recently I have been EQing my sound both with the EBS and the amp heads. In the past I've kept the preamp flat and EQ'd only at the amp head and vice versa. All 3 set-ups have their positives/negatives. I just worry that I may be inadvertently "complicating" or cluttering my quality of sound. I am just curious as to the approaches/opinions of others.

 

[lildrgn]

I used to run my Trace Elliot AH200 GP12 without EQ, and use my preamp pedal (SABDDI, but now using Tone Hammer DI) to EQ, with an occasional twiddle of knobs on my bass.

I just got a new cab and now I'm revisiting things, utilizing both the pre-shape and EQ buttons on my amp, as well as having some settings run via the pedal.

I'm getting more and more into the "if it sounds good, do it" philosophy, rather than the "this way is the right way" process. Hard to be objective, though, when in the basement without the band around.

 

[Mike Kachman]

I think most go with the "if it sounds good....." which ultimately, if it works for you and your band, that's all that matters. Also very true about the difficulty of "tweaking" things at home.

 

[Sascha Erni]

Hi there,

depends on what you want to do. If your amps are your main sound / you play through them all the time and you like how they sound, I'd suggest you set their preamps up to your liking and use the MicroBass flat or for an additional switchable tone, e.g. for different songs.

If you play live and send your board to front-of-house rather than miking your amp / use your amps' DI, it would make sense to make the MicroBass your primary tone shaper. Same goes if you switch backlines often, or want your two amps to sound more or less the same, or if you play ampless / record direct to the board rather than miking etc.

What I personally wouldn't do is mix it up. E.g. dial in a bathtub on your MicroBass, just to raise mids a lot on your amps, or vice-versa.

 

[HelpImaRock]

I guess my question is, what is the preamp doing that you can't achieve or have difficulty achieving with the amp controls?

I'm currently going through this with my BDDI -> Markbass. The amp sounds good on it's own, but I was having trouble dialing in what I wanted. Put the BDDI into the signal chain, turned some knobs, and there was the sound. Not sure why it was easier with the BDDI but I'm not going to question it either.

 

[Mike Kachman]

My main reasoning for preamp EQing = live performances. The amp head (at least mine) has greater range of frequencies and a larger gain range. I have been setting the amp levels and adjusting at the preamp pedal while performing live. Generally a lot easier. In my mind, the preamp pedal is the basic equivalent of an onboard preamp. Of course one might say to just use an active bass.....

 

[Wasnex]

I guess my question is, what is the preamp doing that you can't achieve or have difficulty achieving with the amp controls?

It likely the center frequencies and bandwidth of the tone controls are different. Also either or both may have some baked in tone contouring

 

[Wasnex]

Please forgive me if this was a covered topic in the past. I play passive Fender P basses and run the signal through an EBS MicroBass 3 preamp pedal into my amp head (either a Mesa Boogie Subway D-800 or MarkBass Andrew Gouche).

Recently I have been EQing my sound both with the EBS and the amp heads. In the past I've kept the preamp flat and EQ'd only at the amp head and vice versa. All 3 set-ups have their positives/negatives. I just worry that I may be inadvertently "complicating" or cluttering my quality of sound. I am just curious as to the approaches/opinions of others.

If it works for you then it's all good. It's possible the preamp gives you some sort of special mojo that you can't get any other way.

Possible problems:
1. More gear to carry around and set up.
2. More potential points of failure
3. Some people find it confusing to adjust tone controls in two places.
4. Too much gear in you signal path eventually starts to degrade clarity and focus. Sometimes people are surprised by how much the sound it improved when they remove gear from the signal path.

IMHO use your ears and trust your own judgement.

 

[HelpImaRock]

It likely the center frequencies and bandwidth of the tone controls are different. Also either or both may have some baked in tone contouring

That was more of a specific question to the OP and how he dials them in.

In my case, you're correct. The tone stack on the Markbass head is different than the BDDI. People call it a "baked in sound" but I think of it as a feature instead of a bug.

 

[Mike Kachman]

All great perspectives. But what I am really curious about (and the original intent of my OP) is to what everybody else's approach is (people with passive basses + preamp pedal) to their EQing. I have seen more than a few of the bigger youtuber with bass channels go EQ neutral with the amp head...

 

[bassbrad]

Because so much of my playing is done without an amp for recording, going direct or using a backline I have designed my sound to be ready from my pedal board. If there is an amp I use it simply as a monitor and the EQ to allow for room or event sonic shaping. Even when I have an amp these days it is often a powered speaker and not even a ass amp as such.
When I was touring or gigging with the same amp all the time the entire rig was part of the equation. I tended to use a primary channel - then the EQ for tonal changes for some songs.

 

[HelpImaRock]

All great perspectives. But what I am really curious about (and the original intent of my OP) is to what everybody else's approach is (people with passive basses + preamp pedal) to their EQing. I have seen more than a few of the bigger youtuber with bass channels go EQ neutral with the amp head...

I'm in this wheelhouse with you.

Prior to getting my BDDI, I ran things fairly flat on my head. A little less bass, a little more treble, though I'd engage the LPF to take the edge off the whole thing.

With the BDDI, I'm running the amp completely flat. Bumping the bass and mids, cutting the treble some. The blend is at 50%, and with that comes the baked in tone of the pedal, even though the dirt section is clean and the presence is off.

Basses are a Reverend Watt or Squier Mustang. I roll back the volume and tone to 7 and go from there. The Mustang also runs through a mid boost pedal so my compressor sees a similar signal from both instruments.

 

[Sascha Erni]

All great perspectives. But what I am really curious about (and the original intent of my OP) is to what everybody else's approach is (people with passive basses + preamp pedal) to their EQing. I have seen more than a few of the bigger youtuber with bass channels go EQ neutral with the amp head...

My perspective above was from the POV of passive basses + preamp pedals. As said, it depends.

8 out of 10 of our gigs are ampless, so I do most of my tone shaping with the pre pedals. 1 out of 10, there's my amp, too, but sound is coming primarily from FOH, so it's pretty much a stage monitor and I use its settings for countering stage boom or the like at most and aim for neutral settings on the amp. 1x out of 10, there's no PA, and that's when it's the other way round and I use the amp's pre for sound shaping, the pedal pre is set neutral / utility.

 

[pbass2]

I'm another who sends his sound to the FOH from passive bass>pre>DI, so the amp is irrelevant except as an onstage monitor. In the studio when I do use a bass amp (which is rare - I'm more likely to use an amp sim these days) I usual do it via re-amping closer to the mixing stage. Haven't tracked w an amp in years.

 

[J Wilson]

This setup works, but you have to be careful NOT to:

ADD lots of EQ in both places, only to suddenly find your tone get all overwhelmed and muddy. Try not to overlap. Active EQ on the bass through EQ on the pedal into EQ on the amp head can result in some seismic trace EQ curves that may leave your amp gasping for breath.

This reminds me I always wanted an amp rig with a volume and tone on the bass and one gain knob and an on/off switch on the amp. Period. The rest in is my hands.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

Please forgive me if this was a covered topic in the past. I play passive Fender P basses and run the signal through an EBS MicroBass 3 preamp pedal into my amp head (either a Mesa Boogie Subway D-800 or MarkBass Andrew Gouche).

Recently I have been EQing my sound both with the EBS and the amp heads. In the past I've kept the preamp flat and EQ'd only at the amp head and vice versa. All 3 set-ups have their positives/negatives. I just worry that I may be inadvertently "complicating" or cluttering my quality of sound. I am just curious as to the approaches/opinions of others.

I always EQ with my amp. Although my amp is fairly transparent, there is somewhat of an exponential effect when EQ is done prior to the amp. If you have an amp and or cab with baked in sounds, it can be a real crap shoot. JMO.

 

[Killing Floor]

How can you clutter your sound if you like it?

Let’s start with you’ll never meet another human who notices your tone or notices when you change it. It’s all about you and your bass. If it sounds good it is good.

 

[MLC_BassPlayer]

I play passive Fender P basses and run the signal through an EBS MicroBass 3 preamp pedal into my amp head (either a Mesa Boogie Subway D-800 or MarkBass Andrew Gouche).

you’ll never meet another human who notices your tone or notices when you change it. It’s all about you and your bass.

So the signal path is Bass-->Preamp 1 ---> Preamp 2 ----> Amp ---> Cabinet

I get having multiple options to EQ your sound, but not sure it really matters to anyone but you.

But at the end of the day, it really is all about you. If it makes you happy, then you have your answer...

 

[G On Bass]

I do as much of my eq from my board as possible, with tweaks coming from my bass. My last effect has a DI and that's what goes to FOH. There are a couple of benefits for me that I like:
-My on-stage monitoring volume does not affect the sound person
-If I have to/can use a provided backline, I don't have to fight an unfamiliar or disliked amp
-I don't need to spend tons of money on a boutique amp, pretty much just watts-for-the-money

 

[jdh3000]

I use a tech 21 q strip. I set whichever amp I'm using flat. The q strip has a 4 band eq with the sweepable parametric high and low mids.

I find it easier to work with than the eqs on my different amps, and it keeps everything pretty consistent in my mind when I set up.
Some of my amps have mult-band sliders and others just had bsss, mid, treble. I feel it gives me more control over the tone.

I don't seem to need anything more than maybe rolling the balance knob on my bass a tad. I think if I involved any other eq it would undo what Has already been tweaked.