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Double Bass Did Academia Kill Jazz?
- Thread starter AndyMopley
- Start date
They are confusing you with Rich Brown, the Canadian Jazz bassist. I can see from your equipment that you are a different guy. Rich plays F basses.
Lately he’s been playing a Gretsch semi-hollow thing a lot. But usually F basses, for sure.
Yeah, he picked up the Gretsch for a specific project, and I guess he liked it? It's a beautiful bass, really nice red color. Sounds really good too.
When he performs he seems to favor the six. People gave him crap about that, said "that's not a bass" and he just said "stop it." Said that's the one he "sings with." Note, he means his lines, is not a vocalist.
Anyway, hands down the best instructor on Youtube, IMO.
Are you kidding?
So you think that along wiht the 17 years olds dancing in the aisles at the Paramount when Benny took his band in there, were a bunch of people in their 30s through 60s?
A youth culture as distinct from adult culture has existed in the US at least since the 1920s. Do you think that half the flappers John Held caricatured were matrons in their 40s? Come on.
You are absolutely right. My grandmother was a flapper in the roaring 20's in her teens. Drinking, smoking, carrying on like crazy. Family thought she was out of control. Then she got married at 17 and had to settle down, raise her three kids. By the time she was in her mid 20's she had given up drinking, smoking, even stopped driving.
It's a strange phenomenon, every generation thinks they were the first one to invent rebellious behavior? Of course us old folks know nothing, right?
After the war, Sinatra created a phenomenon - the bobbysoxers who'd wail, weep, faint when he performed. It was NOT a bunch of 40 year old mothers of four. It was teenage girls.
I don't know about the 1910s or 1880s, but to say "there was no youth culture till Elvis" is just patently false.
I don't know about the 1910s or 1880s, but to say "there was no youth culture till Elvis" is just patently false.
My parents were born straight into the great depression in rural alabam and georgia, and even then and in those places there was definitely a youth culture.
It was sinificant even then, but after WWII youth culture’s marketing power really exploded. Part of that is the affluence that allowed parents and grands to really spoil the kids.
It was sinificant even then, but after WWII youth culture’s marketing power really exploded. Part of that is the affluence that allowed parents and grands to really spoil the kids.
Wow! I had to get my nicotine from my Mother's breast milk. Just kidding, I was a "bottle baby," can't you tell?
Still the those kiddos were dancing to the same music as their parents. The division only happened with Rock’n’Roll, the comercialized scandalized carnality.
There may have been a bad scent (of divergency) to Jazz before, but it attracted both groups, youngsters and parents alike.
The whole idea of protest culture or counter culture started in the 50s.
Did academia kill jazz? No, but this thread might unless we all get back to,practicing!
The competition in US must be really tough if one needs to have pursued academia to be able to have gigs.
I just realized here in Taiwan, I have friends who pursued a non-music degree, but they still get gigs. They just really dedicate a lot of their free time in jazz, whether by themselves, with a private teacher, in jazz camps, in open jams, etc.
We also currently have an exchange student from Japan who also does jazz 'on the trenches'. Then he told me that one of his friends is currently in India and has been performing there, although he is studying Hinduism.
However, there once was an exchange student from London, and he told me that the way his previous teacher handle ensemble classes is different compared to what is done in our club. Like they were taught how they should interact with other musicians.
There are also Taiwanese jazz musicians who have studied and are currently studying in other countries. The most popular example would be Ponpon Chen.
JazznFunk
Supporting Member
You CAN get gigs without having a 'Jazz Studies Degree'. I technically don't have a 'Jazz degree' even though I studied and took on a ton of music theory and performance programs in college, in addition to recording studio practicum courses. My degree is in 'Multimedia Arts & Sciences' with a concentration in digital audio engineering.... and a minor in 'Jazz Studies.' A lot of courses I took worked for both ends of my 'academic career' and it was great. You nailed the core of it when you pointed out that it's more about the time you dedicate on your own, and on the bandstand, which REALLY cements things. That is what determines your longevity and continued development of your sound and voice as you move thru life. I went to school with guys who were full on music/Jazz majors that I played with all the time, who could play circles around me, who no longer play at all. They didn't have the drive or desire to continue pursuing music after they were done with school for various reasons. Years of study, time, and money that they did not roll into a professional music career. The spark and desire ALWAYS has to be there outside of 'academia.'
No one asks you to present your diploma for permission to play when you step on the bandstand. They just care about whether or not you can play. A lot of people come out of school with a 'Jazz Degree' and still can't really play super well. That is the START of a journey in many cases. Some people come out of school with incredible chops and abilities, but have no original voice whatsoever. So it's never as simple as people think it should be.
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In fact, the parents were dancing to so-called "sweet" music, whereas, scandalously, the kids were "swing" fanatics.
Translation: white versus "race" music.
The division seems to have begun in the early 1920s, when jazz began penetrating mainstream culture. Jazz was dangerous, thrilling. Kids didn't sneak into speakeasies to dance to Paul Whiteman.
Rock'n'roll was just the same deal over again. Black music played by white people.
I also have the same observation. There's a Chinese saying that goes, "It doesn't matter if you go slowly. What matters is you don't stop."
EDIT: Also, thanks for sharing your experience. I may have jazz friends here but I haven't talked to veterans like you and the other folks here.
Hey there, thank you for that lesson. I had never filed the roaring 20s under youth rebellion, as some essays I just read do, interesting change of framing.
Keep in mind the US is like 1,000 little live music markets. Depending on which state and city/county you are working in, you might have little to no competition or you might be competing against the best players in the world. I personally have no degree in music but am lucky to play gigs on a fairly routine basis. The extent of my formal music education is band class in middle/high school and a single music theory course at community college. From even that though, i was able to learn how to read music and gain a basic understanding of composition/counterpoint/harmony.
