Did I just find a '66 P-bass?

[Dark Horse]

I've read several books on Fender. Your claim that 66's are the best basses of the era is the first time I've heard this. Could you direct me to any site or publication that could go into more detail about this?

I would say that MOST people think that 65's and 66's are the "best of the CBS era".

 

[smcd]

IME, as the CBS era unfolded, the B neck became the most common nut width, but I must admit that is just my personal "random sample."

Never. It's always been "c" necks that were prevalent on Precisions. And your friends bass acts as confirmation.

 

[One Drop]

Gorgeous bass. I love those target bursts (with the bright yellow center).

It all looks perfectly legit and stock to me, except the case is probably from a later RI or was bought separately. They were black vinyl by then, of course.

I noticed a few years ago (when hundreds were still hanging on shop walls across the US- I played at least 50 in one trip to NYC) that many '66 Ps and Js had particularly high output and a very strong mid presence. there was a lot of PUP winding variation, it could be as simple as whoever was winding at the time had a different touch, or the winder was acting up or slowing down or speeding up, who knows? But I did notice quite a few sounded different in the same way. A lot of vintage Fender aficionados value the early CBS basses highly, FWIW.

As regard the post about the differences between a '66 and a '72, by '66 Braz boards were exceedingly rare if nonexistent, and were usually Indian rosewood. In '72 I doubt you would find many ash S/B Fenders, either. The only difference with the bridge would be single grooved saddles rather than threaded on the latter. The biggest differences would be poly vs. nitro, neck width and profile, tort pattern, belly cut, and the decal.

Looks-wise they are a world apart, though. By the '70s S/B Fenders just look blah to me (and I own a '72 J), but that '66 is a dream to look at.

edited to add:

Sorry if this post was made redundant while I was typing it.

BTW, B necks did indeed become the prevalent (i.e. shipped standard if not custom ordered) P neck width for many years. a single bass is neither refutation or confirmation. BTW, the shape of the back of the necks, while varying from one to another within any era, did follow basic trends through the years, e.g. very thin and flattish early '60s, meatier by the CBS era, more rounded in the '70s, etc. All the little things can add up to a basses with quite different looks and feels, if you care to notice.

Why does every thread about a vintage instrument have to revert to the question of them being worth X amount of dollars? It's ubiquitous, boring and highly irrelevant.

 

[SteveC]

Funny how a simple question - did I just find a '66 P-bass - still turns into a which P-bass is the best, most valuable P-bass discussion.

 

[smcd]

I would say that MOST people think that 65's and 66's are the "best of the CBS era".

Only because they're buying into the myth that the split second ownership was transferred to CBS, quality began to plummet.

Quality at Fender didn't start to tank until the early-mid 70's. Prior to that, the product was just as good as when Leo Fender owned the company.

 

[Dark Horse]

Only because they're buying into the myth that the split second ownership was transferred to CBS, quality began to plummet.

Quality at Fender didn't start to tank until the early-mid 70's. Prior to that, the product was just as good as when Leo Fender owned the company.

Actually, they're buying into the fact that when Fender sold to CBS there were...

A) A LOT of parts that Fender had already made, and they were part of the sale.

B) The first couple years, CBS kept the Fender employees on staff. After that, CBS replaced many of them

C) Leo Fender was a "consultant" to CBS during the first couple years after the sale

Those are the reasons why people like the 65' and 66's.

Though I'll definitely agree that through 69 or so quality was still very high, at least with guitars. Amps started to change in late 68/early 69...mostly for the worse, in many peoples opinion.

 

[smcd]

Some are good, some aren't.

You are right that "functionally" a 66 is the same as a 72, much like a 70 Dodge Challenger is "functionally" the same as a 1978 Dodge Challenger. They both will get you from place to place....but there ARE many differences.

A '70 Challenger and a '78 Challenger are 2 entirely different automobiles. They didn't even look the same.

A '66 P-bass and a '72 P-bass are virtually identical.

 

[Arthur U. Poon]

Me, I've never owned a pre-CBS fender an likely never will. I had plenty of chances back when I had more money and the collectors hadn't gone crazy (I recall having a few grand and walking around Voltage music in Hollywood and playing several Pre-CBS J-basses - none called to me, and they were all between $1500 and $2500 (meaning I could have afforded one). Sigh... I miss the '80s!

Same here. We must be in the same age range.

The guys that I knew who owned the incredible sounding pre-CBS basses knew what they had, and they weren't going to sell them. Plus, $1500 to $2500 was pretty expensive for my budget in those days. I would cruise pawn shops for used CBS-era P-Basses being sold cheap and mod the crap out of them. Now, they're collectables!

If I only would've kept them stock in a closet. I'd have a nice little nest egg today!

 

[deedub72]

I dunno. If someone offered me big bucks for it, I'd suppose consider it. But as it is, I'm a collector, and I'd have some trouble letting go of something I'd never again spend the money to replace.

I guess you did NOT read my previous post regarding the 1966 P-Bass...I have several luthier friends as well as prfessional player frineds that all feel the same way about the 1966 P-Bass. I suppose I should add this, as long as the 15th fret hump isn't present they look for and want them.

Like I said before, I have two one is a 66 in Fiesta red th other is getting shipped out for a refin...at some point someone stripped and refinished it, very poorly at that. So I a going to have it refinished, it will be a few months before I get it back. Once it is home I will post before and after pics.

 

[Dark Horse]

A '70 Challenger and a '78 Challenger are 2 entirely different automobiles. They didn't even look the same.

A '66 P-bass and a '72 P-bass are virtually identical.

Not true.

MANY parts changes, including the pickups (engine), often the woods (alder vs ash, Brazilian vs Indian RW), tuners, bridge (saddles went from threaded to single groove), etc.

A 66 and 72 P Bass are functionally the same, but still quite different.

Though not as different as a 70 Challenger and a 78 Challeneger perhaps, they are still very different basses.


Anyway, have a nice day...Ive gotta go grab some food and go off to the studio.

 

[smcd]

I guess you did NOT read my previous post regarding the 1966 P-Bass...I have several luthier friends as well as prfessional player frineds that all feel the same way about the 1966 P-Bass. I suppose I should add this, as long as the 15th fret hump isn't present they look for and want them.

Like I said before, I have two one is a 66 in Fiesta red th other is getting shipped out for a refin...at some point someone stripped and refinished it, very poorly at that. So I a going to have it refinished, it will be a few months before I get it back. Once it is home I will post before and after pics.

No. I did read your previous post. I, too, have several friends who are luthiers and professional players. Not to mention friends that are dealers and collectors. Not a single one of them ever told me anything like that. Ever.

If this was actually the case, I would think that it would have been noted by those that have written books on the subject, wouldn't you?

 

[savit260]

No no. A "c" neck is a "c" neck, which is the typical P-bass neck. Unless you're claiming that '66 and '72 models were typically fitted with "c" and "b" necks, respectively. If you are, you're wrong.

Fender started using "B" necks on Precisions as "standard" in 1968. The vast majority of Pre 68 Fender Precisions have "C" necks.

You will find most 70's Precisions are fitted with "B" necks. If you think different, you are 100% wrong.

Sunburst/rosewood basses were predominately alder, right into the 70's. The use of alder was a cost saving move in the 50's. Either way, alder does not necessarily sound better than ash. Many feel the opposite is true.

Yet, I've seen plenty of Sunburst 70's Precisions that were Ash. And I said "DIFFERENT, not better.

The Fender-built P-bass pickups were for all practical purposes EXACTLY the same in the mid-60's through the 70's.

There were small differences during that time frame.

Nitro finishes look nicer than poly finishes. For a period of time. But there is NO difference in sound between basses finished in nitro and poly. That is pure myth.

That has been debated to death, and I'll just go with AGAIN DIFFERENT.

A '66 P-bass and a '72 P-bass both have Indian rosewood boards. Regardless, there is absolutely positively unquestionably NO difference in tone between Brazilian and Indian rosewood on an electric bass. None. The difference between those 2 woods is the Brazilian rosewood looks nicer.

So it is different again. Some time during 66 the switch from Brazillian to Indian roswood was made. Yup, that could make it ... different
[/quote]
The bridges are the same. The saddles are different. There is no difference in sound. None. If anything, the '66 saddles are inferior.[/quote]
I didn't hear anyone say "superior or inferior". Yup, different

The tuners turning in different directions don't affect sound or playability. I certainly hope you're not claiming they do.

I'm speaking in as plain English as I can. Where did I say that. What was it I said? OH YEAH....different

Again - the differences you point out between a '66 and a '72 P-bass make no difference in the functional playability and sound of those basses. They're just little things collectors obsess over.

When you add them all up , what you come up with is a bass that is pretty similar, but yet ... somwhat different.

.. and for functional playability and sound, a MIM Standard, Squier, or SX for that matter makes no difference in functional playability either.

And an SX - though it's a nice enough bass - is an inferior instrument to any Fender made prior to '72.

I think if you took a good hard look at them, they are pretty similar to an early 70's Fender in a lot of ways.

I certainly, purely from a functional stantpoint , wouldn't call my personal SX "inferior" to any Fender I've ever played. They both do exactly the same thing, and fill exactly the same roll.

 

[nortonrider]

If there isn't anything that special about it, why not sell it, and get an MIM Fender or an SX... because functionaly they are the same...

To be totally honest, That's exactly what I would do!!!

If somebody was willing to drop a big enough pile of money on me to own that "66 mojo", they can have it!

 

[smcd]

Not true.

MANY parts changes, including the pickups (engine), often the woods (alder vs ash, Brazilian vs Indian RW), tuners, bridge (saddles went from threaded to single groove), etc.

A 66 and 72 P Bass are functionally the same, but still quite different.

Though not as different as a 70 Challenger and a 78 Challeneger perhaps, they are still very different basses.


Anyway, have a nice day...Ive gotta go grab some food and go off to the studio.

Nothing that makes a single difference in the sound and playability is different between a '66 and a '72 P-bass.

The pickups are identical.
Alder vs. ash is a non-starter, as one wood doesn't unquestionably sound better than the other.
There is NO difference in sound/playability between Brazilian and Indian rosewood. None.
Tuners and saddle differences make absolutely zero difference in the sound and playability. Zero.


A '66 and a '72 P-bass are, for all practical purposes, exactly the same.

A '70 and a '78 Challenger are different in every way. I don't think a single component between the two are the same.

 

[smcd]

To be totally honest, That's exactly what I would do!!!

If somebody was willing to drop a big enough pile of money on me to own that "66 mojo", they can have it!

Same here, I guess.







btw - do you ride a Norton?

 

[savit260]

Never. It's always been "c" necks that were prevalent on Precisions. And your friends bass acts as confirmation.

You couldn't be more wrong.

The switch from "C" necks to "B" necks as standard happened some time during 1968.

I'm sure you can find later examples with "C" or even "A" necks, but "B" has been the standard Precision size neck for over 40 years now.

 

[savit260]

Nothing that makes a single difference in the sound and playability is different between a '66 and a '72 P-bass.

The pickups are identical.
Alder vs. ash is a non-starter, as one wood doesn't unquestionably sound better than the other.
There is NO difference in sound/playability between Brazilian and Indian rosewood. None.
Tuners and saddle differences make absolutely zero difference in the sound and playability. Zero.


A '66 and a '72 P-bass are, for all practical purposes, exactly the same.

A '70 and a '78 Challenger are different in every way. I don't think a single component between the two are the same.

Wow!! You clearly don't know the difference between the words "different" and "better".

different [ˈdɪfərənt ˈdɪfrənt]
adj
1. partly or completely unlike
2. not identical or the same; other he always wears a different tie
3. out of the ordinary; unusual


Zero difference in sound and playability does not equal bieng the same. There are however, a BUNCH of differences.

 

[savit260]

To be totally honest, That's exactly what I would do!!!

My 64 P is semi-retired now, and an SX does everything that the old Fender did, and nearly as well. Actually does a few things better.

 

[smcd]

You couldn't be more wrong.

The switch from "C" necks to "B" necks as standard happened some time during 1968.

I'm sure you can find later examples with "C" or even "A" necks, but "B" has been the standard Precision size neck for over 40 years now.

I'll see if I can't look this up when I get home. I believe you're wrong.

 

[Dark Horse]

Never. It's always been "c" necks that were prevalent on Precisions. And your friends bass acts as confirmation.

checking back in.

Since you keep asking for books as "proof", please refer to page 107 of the book "The Fender Bass:An Illustrated History" by JW Black and Albert Molinaro. There you will find the quote :

"1972/1973: The Precision Bass neck dimension changed from the "C" 1-3/4" to the "B" 1-5/8""

Just to address some of the other differences, you will also find on that page the following:

"1969: Polyester finishes are used on the neck and body undercoat. The headstock, color, and topcoat continue to be lacquer".


"1970: Fender advertises its' new Thick Skin" finish".

"The threaded saddle on the bass bridge is replaced by a new barrel design with a single notch that locates the string""


You'll also find that the pickups are typically wound to a lower value on the 72's. Though not an indicator of output, it does serve as an indicator that the 66's had a bit more bass content. Nothing that couldn't be made up for with a slight twist of the amps tone knob however.

Again, Saviot and I aren't saying "better or worse"...just different. Functionally the same, but different.

The 66 and 72 P Basses are not "virtually identical" as you claim.

I've REALLY gotta run now, or I won't get food before my session. Have a good night.