Double Bass Difference between "rockabilly" and "Jazz" basses?

[lunarpollen]

IN GENERAL, a jazz bassist will be using a bass for a greater range of expressive playing than the average rockabilly bassist. Of course, not all jazz bassists are the same (and neither are all rockabilly bassists). A rockabilly bassist generally will settle for a bass that gets the job done and will hold up to regular rockabilly gigging. Set-up for rockabilly bass will generally be different than for jazz bass, although if you will be exclusively playing early-1930's style jazz bass, your set-up might be similar because the playing style is similar (and a cheaper, less expressive bass might be adequate too).

 

[SAlcott]

A "Jazz" bass would generally be thought of as a bass suited for and set up for making a good pizzicato sound. A "Rockabilly " bass needs interior reinforcement to withstand the rigors of performance. As far as sound is concerned, minimal acoustic sound is desirable, as the required amplification levels make acoustic output a feedback hazard.

 

[daveman50]

Herewith a transcription/translation of rockabillybob1's post, as best I can make it out. I don't agree with (or fully understand) all of it, but he makes some sense. If only he would use punctuation and proper spelling and syntax!

"What daft answers you got! There is a big difference between rockabilly bass and jazz double bass. Firstly, they are set up differently, and it doesn't matter what color bass you get to do either style. Rockabilly bass players use weedwhacker strings, which are crap. A decent string is Innovation Super Silvers -- they sound like gut and slap the board fantastically.

"The set-up of strings for rockabilly playing is critical for a lovely bump bass sound and the slap the jazz way strings are higher set and normally thinner. [????]

"Don't buy cheap £350 basses; they are Chinese. What I do is look on eBay for an old German or Czech one, and strip it down with Nitromore's - then get a french polisher to color it and lacquer it the way you want it. The older the bass normally gives you a better sound. Rockabilly players prefer ply basses. Jazz players that I know prefer carved basses or solid-top basses.

"I own a 1937 Kay and it's the best rockabilly sound ever. I've tried Primavera blondes and they aren't much better than the cheap Chinese crap that's out there.

"Hope this helps."

 

[drurb]

Maybe not intentionally but demonstrate it he does. As he says guts make it easier but he clearly shows you can very effectively slap a steel strung "jazz" bass. The real functional differences between a bass set up for jazz and one set up for rockabilly are minimal...guts and a mag p.up.

No, Ray Brown did not demonstrate that at all. He demonstrated that he could make his bass sound quite good played in that style, but Ray was an amazing master! That doesn't even come close to demonstrating that a bass chosen for and set up for jazz is essentially the same as one chosen for and set up for rockabilly. I think there is much you are missing.

 

[thebassbass]

Maybe not intentionally but demonstrate it he does. As he says guts make it easier but he clearly shows you can very effectively slap a steel strung "jazz" bass. The real functional differences between a bass set up for jazz and one set up for rockabilly are minimal...guts and a mag p.up.

Guts and a magnetic pickup? Im not sure how that is supposed to work.

 

[littlemark]

Perfect for bass solos. So low you can't hear them.

Guts and a magnetic pickup? Im not sure how that is supposed to work.

 

[anonymous122511]

Guts and a magnetic pickup? Im not sure how that is supposed to work.

It's not. I'm an idiot.

 

[bobsax]

Herewith a transcription/translation of rockabillybob1's post, as best I can make it out. I don't agree with (or fully understand) all of it, but he makes some sense. If only he would use punctuation and proper spelling and s..

"Hope this helps."

Hey Dave
Nice job on the translation. Rockabillybob1 seems to know what he's talking about and I hope he appreciates your translation.(I do) I'm sure he was in a rush and didn't feel like proofreading.
Maybe somebody should copy it over to the Rockabilly area?



As to the original question regarding Blonde and the regular darker finish, I just got a Shen SB80. The SB90 is blonde and about $400 more. As far as I can tell from the sitehttp://cscproducts.com/
the only difference is the paint job.

btw I just made the switch from ABG and my research lead me to get the Shen SB80. It was the cheapest of the recommended basses that I found and has a good resale value.

 

[anonymous122511]

It's not. I'm an idiot.

On further consideration I'm not (although some will strongly disagree) that big an idiot. It's it's undeniably true that guts and mag p.ups are both used to good effect on rockabilly basses. Just not together and really I never intended to suggest they could be. That guts and mag p.ups are both used extensively by different players is indicative of the fact that there really isn't any one defining thing or any universally conclusive differences between "rockabilly" and "jazz" basses.

 

[drurb]

...there really isn't any one defining thing or any universally conclusive differences between "rockabilly" and "jazz" basses.

You're correct. There isn't any ONE defining thing and hardly anything is agreed upon universally. Still, basses that are prototypical jazz basses and basses that are prototypical rockabilly basses are quite different. Few who are familiar with the details would confuse one for the other.

 

[kurt]

Rockabilly players generally prefer plywood basses like old Kays and Jazz players generally prefer carved basses. But you can use either for jazz or rockabilly depending on the sound you are going for, your budget, amplification concerns, setup, etc.

 

[thebassbass]

Bottom line if you play jazz on your bass its a jazz bass if you play rockabilly its a rockabilly bass. Anything to do with set up is a personal preference. There is no reason you cant have a jazz player with high string height, guts and a plywood bass and a rockabilly guy on a fully carved bass with some spirocores slammed down real low.

 

[drurb]

Bottom line if you play jazz on your bass its a jazz bass if you play rockabilly its a rockabilly bass. Anything to do with set up is a personal preference. There is no reason you cant have a jazz player with high string height, guts and a plywood bass and a rockabilly guy on a fully carved bass with some spirocores slammed down real low.

Well, of course, but that skirts the issue. It ignores the fact that there are certain features having to do with construction (e.g., lam vs. carved... reinforcement) and setup preferences that signal a bass optimized for jazz and one optimized for rockabilly. It's the entire package we're discussing. Of course, you can take ANY bass and change the setup or play any style of music you wish on any bass with any setup.

I can travel on the interstate with an "off-road" vehicle (yeah, so long as it's legal), and off-road with a vehicle built for cruising (but I might get stuck in the mud). I could even change the suspension on each to do the job of the other. That doesn't change the fact that we recognize and acknowledge the validity of the differences among the features of the two types.

 

[kurt]

I guess King basses come to mind being specifically designed for rockabilly players with extra reinforcement for doing bass tricks, low acoustic output, thin neck, flattened out camber on the fingerboard, paint job, etc. It's nearly impossible to bow on them cause of the flat fingerboard, and I've never seen a jazz player using one.

 

[longfinger]

The defining question: "Can I stand on it?"
A: "Yes." -> Rockabilly
A: "Are you nuts? Get away from that bass!" -> jazz and beyond.

 

[thebassbass]

Well, of course, but that skirts the issue. It ignores the fact that there are certain features having to do with construction (e.g., lam vs. carved... reinforcement) and setup preferences that signal a bass optimized for jazz and one optimized for rockabilly. It's the entire package we're discussing. Of course, you can take ANY bass and change the setup or play any style of music you wish on any bass with any setup.

I can travel on the interstate with an "off-road" vehicle (yeah, so long as it's legal), and off-road with a vehicle built for cruising (but I might get stuck in the mud). I could even change the suspension on each to do the job of the other. That doesn't change the fact that we recognize and acknowledge the validity of the differences among the features of the two types.

I dont see an issue that needs skirting. All im saying is two jazz players (or rockabilly) can have very different set ups to optimize it for the way they approach the bass and neither of them is wrong.

 

[drurb]

I dont see an issue that needs skirting. All im saying is two jazz players (or rockabilly) can have very different set ups to optimize it for the way they approach the bass and neither of them is wrong.

Indeed, there is no issue that needs skirting. Yet, skirt you did. No one said anything about players with different setups being wrong. The issue is about whether there are characteristics that differentiate typical jazz and rockabilly basses. There are.

 

[thebassbass]

Indeed, there is no issue that needs skirting. Yet, skirt you did. No one said anything about players with different setups being wrong. The issue is about whether there are characteristics that differentiate typical jazz and rockabilly basses. There are.

what are they? and what is typical and who gets to define typical? Anything you say is typical for a rockabilly player i can name any number of jazz guys that have used the same. apart from flame paint but then you dont have to have flame paint to be a rockabilly player.

I guess it just all seems a bit immature to me. It reminds me of a small kid calling an acoustic guitar a "country guitar" and an electric a "rock guitar". Like that all that instrument is capable of playing.

 

[chuck3]

first, that Ray Brown clip is amazing. I wish it kept going; he was just getting to some interesting points.

second, I generally agree with drurb. Case in point for me is that I own two Uptons: first, a Standard (plywood) which was at one price point; second, a Hybrid (carved top) which was at a higher price point.

The Standard is great for my regular country-rock-blues band, some of which style might be thought of as rockabilly although we don't market ourselves that way. Also for bluegrass. This is not just my opinion; other bass players in the Hudson Valley have commented favorably on this bass when used that way.

However, I don't consider the Standard great for jazz. The notes are not well-defined enough, and the sustain is not the same as ... on the Hybrid, which I keep in Brooklyn and use for jazz.

I don't mean to overstate the differences, but two different instruments for me. Both basses, obviously, but I use one for one kind of music and the other for another.

 

[drurb]

what are they?

They've been discussed multiple times in this thread. I won't restate them

and what is typical and who gets to define typical?

The community does and, in this case, it is well understood by most.

Anything you say is typical for a rockabilly player i can name any number of jazz guys that have used the same.

No, you can't name any number. There are always exceptions and this is one of these silly internet arguments that borders on "nothing can be known."

I guess it just all seems a bit immature to me. It reminds me of a small kid calling an acoustic guitar a "country guitar" and an electric a "rock guitar". Like that all that instrument is capable of playing.

No one said anything of the kind. It seems you've missed the point... again.

Please read post #33 again... and again.

By your logic, if you drive your Rolls-Royce Silver Cloud off the paved road, then it's an "off-road" vehicle. No, it's not, other than in the most trivial sense. (Either that or you'd have us abandon the classifications altogether and call them all cars.) The point is that different types, be they cars or double-basses, are optimized for a particular use, despite the fact that they can be used for other things. Of course, one can take what is a prototypical "rockabilly bass" and play jazz on it. Of course, one can take a prototypical "jazz bass" and play rockabilly on it. When people speak of a "rockabilly bass" or a "jazz bass," they are speaking of an instrument optimized for the genre. They are not saying that one cannot be used to make music in any genre. Frankly, I find it amazing (and perhaps, disingenuous) that that's how you'd interpret people's use of what turn out to be useful and informative classifications.

Interesting that you would bring up guitars. I'm sure you are aware of how common are the classifications of say "folk guitar" and "classical guitar." Try telling a classical guitarist that he should not refer to his instrument as a classical guitar because, after all, you can play folk music on it. Those classifications are useful. So are the ones we use for double basses.