If this thread has shown anything it's that a "typical" rockabilly setup doesn't exist.
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Double Bass Difference between "rockabilly" and "Jazz" basses?
- Thread starter SanDiegoHarry
- Start date
If this thread has shown anything it's that a "typical" rockabilly setup doesn't exist.
A typical rockabilly setup may not exist but 1) it's likely not to be one that would be typical of a jazz setup and 2) as I said before, it's the whole package, instrument and setup included. This thread is not simply about what constitutes a jazz or rockabilly setup.
I'll accept that, and I'll accept that a "typical" jazz setup doesn't exist either, but if you as a bassist with your own criteria go into one with the same bass/setup/amplification gear as with the other, then you're the exception rather than the rule. I play gigs requiring both styles so I say this based on experience. Some of you seem kinda hypothetical, NTTAWWT.
They've been discussed multiple times in this thread. I won't restate them
The community does and, in this case, it is well understood by most.
No, you can't name any number. There are always exceptions and this is one of these silly internet arguments that borders on "nothing can be known."
No one said anything of the kind. It seems you've missed the point... again.
Please read post #33 again... and again.
By your logic, if you drive your Rolls-Royce Silver Cloud off the paved road, then it's an "off-road" vehicle. No, it's not, other than in the most trivial sense. (Either that or you'd have us abandon the classifications altogether and call them all cars.) The point is that different types, be they cars or double-basses, are optimized for a particular use, despite the fact that they can be used for other things. Of course, one can take what is a prototypical "rockabilly bass" and play jazz on it. Of course, one can take a prototypical "jazz bass" and play rockabilly on it. When people speak of a "rockabilly bass" or a "jazz bass," they are speaking of an instrument optimized for the genre. They are not saying that one cannot be used to make music in any genre. Frankly, I find it amazing (and perhaps, disingenuous) that that's how you'd interpret people's use of what turn out to be useful and informative classifications.
Interesting that you would bring up guitars. I'm sure you are aware of how common are the classifications of say "folk guitar" and "classical guitar." Try telling a classical guitarist that he should not refer to his instrument as a classical guitar because, after all, you can play folk music on it. Those classifications are useful. So are the ones we use for double basses.
im not talking at all like the Rolls-Royce off-road thing you speak off. Two jazz guys two way different set ups. Two rockabilly guys two way different set ups.
Im saying there is such a big variety in both styles to the point of overlapping so much that all we see is extremes.
Calling it a classical guitar help define the structural differences from the construction of it to other known guitars. Unlike the jazz or rockabilly label where both are constructed the same.
Hypothetical? I may not be a virtuoso slapper but I've played for 38 years and as a longtime stagehand I've seen a huge variety of setups up close, heard and talked to many different players and even gotten to play some of their instruments. I certainly have not commented beyond my real, hands on experience.
Bingo! The first true statement. Although, it's not 100% absolute law.
I know guys who play rockabilly on hybrid/carved tops. I don't know any jazzers who play laminates. (I do know a few that own them though...but they won't play them on a jazz gig)
Pretty much it boils down to this:
Marketing.
Someone touched on King Double Bass in their post. Yes, KDB is the "quintessential" Rockabilly Bass. (such a lame term) They were built specifically with the slap/trickster bassist in mind. They were re-inforced on the inner ribs, painted up real slick and set up how ever YOU wanted your bass to play. There was no defining "rockabilly set up". In my experience, the best slap set up is a flatter fingerboard for your right hand technique. This is awful for arco. But, when slapping it feels better for all of the different right hand slap technique. This isn't saying that a flatter fingerboard will suck for a jazz player. Most slappers don't like a fingerboard with too much radius for the obvious reasons. Technique needs to change to fit the feel of the fingerboard. So, technically, a "rockabilly" bass is intended to be a bass that is built a bit more rugged (yes, for those dudes who do the stunts. Not ALL slapper/rockabilly guys do that **** though) from the inside out, set up with slap technique in mind (whether that be strings, string height, pick up ect) and have a totally bitchin' paint job with flames (disclaimer: that is sarcasm). Of course, this is from the "marketing" perspective from bass-pushers trying to make more money.
Of course, any bass can make a great "jazz" bass or "rockabilly" bass. It really depends on the persons soul and hands playing the instrument, imo (and how they handle and take care of it). But, because of King Double Bass and the term "rockabilly bass" being used all over craigslist, eBay, FMI and the internet, it has become a specific type of bass. I think it's very silly to label. Unless, of course, it's a $100,000, 100 year old carved beauty.... then we all know what type of gig that bass should be played on.
I really like the "country guitar" reference. Spot on, I reckon.
Actually, I think that were many that preceded it.
Too bad it doesn't really apply.
Two off-road vehicles have way different engines, suspensions, tires. Variance within a category and plenty of it. Now try to look between categories. Different story. Let me spell it out. You're not likely to find anything resembling any of those two very different "off-road" suspensions on the Rolls-Royce (across categories).
This thread has gotten really silly. Plain and simple. Most of us know what is meant by a typical "rockabilly bass" or "jazz bass." It doesn't mean that all within each rough category have the same setup. It doesn't mean that all within a category are built the same. It doesn't mean that all within a category look the same. It doesn't mean that any given bass fits neatly into either category. It doesn't mean that music of any genre can't be played on any of them. The categorizations have a general and informative meaning largely resulting from reasonable reliable difference across the types. People can play the "internet argument game" and point out the exceptions, that the categories aren't absolute, etc. That's all beside the point that the nomenclature is informative. It speaks to distributions of characteristics.
I think i know why we (you and I) are so far off in this discussion. From what i gather you have a much more strict definition of what is jazz and rockabilly than I. Also the way I take your off road speech is that jazz guys have to drive a Rolls-Royce and rockabilly guys have to drive off road trucks. Like there is no way a jazz guy would like to go off road. To me your "typical" only looks at the 5% or so extrems of both directions which doesn't sound typical to me.
You have not identified any "reasonable reliable difference across the types". On one hand you seem agree there is no typical setup while on the other you continue to cling to the idea that, "Most of us know what is meant by a typical "rockabilly bass" or "jazz bass"." How do we know? I agree that many of us do have an idea but thread isn't for us. It's for those that don't know and if you are going to maintain your posture you need to clearly define the differences that in your mind denote typical. I continue to maintain this typical setup of yours is fiction. If I'm wrong then you should be able to simply and clearly define it.
Wrong twice more! Nope, it has nothing to do with a more strict definitions of the genres. No, my car analogy had nothing to do with the genres either. It never even entered my mind that the cars in my examples corresponded to the basses being discussed. It was just an analogy. Take the words at face value.
I never said there was a typical setup in either category. I took great pains on more than one occasion to point that out. It's the whole package. The distinctions are stated quite well throughout the thread so, no, I "need to" do any of what you say I must in order to be understood by and in line with the thinking of most here. I regret that the validity of what I'm saying seems to have escaped you. We'll have to leave it at that.
i may have not worded my last post rightly diferences between rockabilly bass mainly when advertised are just cheap tacky chinese basses made to look good with sparkly flames and crappy paint jobs if you want a proper rockabilly bass then look at king basses from usa these are proper for the job now the blonde bit it is a rockabilly thing i dont no why i think it comes down to blonde kay basses from usa i own a 1937 kay dark one with a shamferd fingerboard have inovation super silvers string height at 9 mm above the fingerboard to give a perfect slap now evry jazz player ive met wouldnt use a rockabilly bass they want a more tonal bass were rockabilly bass is a dull thud with power and the slap sound just above giving the click mixed with the bass to me jazz is more technically played with nicer sounding notes being heard so theres a massive difference in rockabilly bass compared to jazz and a rockabilly player can get away with a crappy cheapo bass and make it sound right with the correct strings either gut or inovation metal strings can be slapped but after 45 min x 2 sets wow it hurts but people do it like bob out of the jets jazz players want a more refined bass with lovely tonal sound so to me right or rong theres a massive difference from rockabilly to jazz playing and thats without talking set up techniques if i have made you laugh made you sigh ill leave it there 
Enough of the ad hominem that I lack the intelligent to understand you when I simply disagree. On the other hand if that's the level this has gone to then I'm quite content to disengage.
Well, not ad hominem in the abusive or fallacious sense in that I was stating what I see as a relevant fact. Never did I say or imply anything negative about your general intelligence. It hasn't gone to any special "level." You see the failed communication as a problem with the transmitter. I see it as a problem with the receiver. The thread and my former posts answer your questions. I don't care to explain it again.
Awesome thread. I'm waiting for the entire bass section of the Berlin Philharmonic to weigh in. Crossing my fingers!
- Dec 13, 1999
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- Disclosures
- Chuck Sher publishes my book, WALKING BASSICS:The Fundamentals of Jazz Bass Playing.
You do understand that this says more about your range of acquaintance than it does about jazz musicians who play bass and their choice of instrument, yes?
since this thread has wanderd all over the place does anyone no were i can get 4 wheel drive fitted to my bass then i could drive it to giggs you guys are full of camparisons and bull ill leave you to it
Doesnt Michael Moore play a laminated Christopher Bass when he tours? I think we would all consider him a jazz Bassist.
Yes, a $2,000 Christopher, which he played for several years with Dave Brubeck. (Lately, he's playing a Czech-Ease).
