• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Different Volume on different amps with same power

DELACIUS

DELACIUS

Sep 6, 2007
1,144
689
Croatia
#1
Hey all,
I've been searching for this topic for long time, couldn't find anything about it.

So I've been using Markbass for more than 15 years, I had some other amps in my possession during that period but always kept my MB (Phil Jones, GRbass, Fender, etc.)
Maybe because I had a deal with local music shop and I was endorsing MB, or just because I really think that these amps are really good.

So my friend wants to switch from Phil Jones M300 to Darkglass, so we went to local music shop to try Darkglass amps.

We had DarkGlass E500, Darkglass Microtubes v2 900, Phil Jones M300 and my MB Big Bang.

So what I was noticing is that on some amps (most of them) you can really push the volume knob, I mean that Darkglass e500, you could have it all the way up, sounded clean, while on my MB I can go over 12 o'clock, it starting to loose the clarity.

Phil jones same, you could push it all the way up It would hold on.
Have to say we were really careful of input gain so that wasn't the thing.

I mean the volume on MB at half is almost whole power of the amp, from 12 o'clock to all the way is almost no difference. And on Darkglass from 12 o'clock to all the way there is still a lot of power.

I mean they were at same volume, but why they make volume knob with that much of a difference.
Have any of you ever played MB with volume all the way up... I had Little Mark 2, Little Mark 3, Ninja and Big Bang, none of those amps could go so I have volume all the way up.

I'm asking that because Darkglass was so crystal clear and with my MB I was struggling to tell if it's distorting or not. Why almost half of volume knob is unusable?

The cab was Barefaced BB2, later on we went on Ampeg 8x10 and same thing like MB has more power that he can take all the way up, and E500 was insanely clear when all the way up.

Sorry for my English it's not the first language.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MarshallAC50Stack and DJ Bebop
#2
It basically comes down to different people have different preferences.

Also I think there may be some attempt at psychological manipulation with models that have the power comes on super fast. Many people assume the knob settings indicate the power level. So if the amp is super loud and the volume is at 25%, they assume they have a lot of headroom. This is misleading because the amp may run out of headroom and start to clip if you turn the volume to 30%.

I don't really care one way or the other as long as the controls are not so aggressive that it becomes difficult to adjust the amp. For example, the Master volume of a Mesa M9 Carbine comes on rather quick, and this can make it difficult to adjust the volume. If you barely crack the Master open the amp puts out a lot of power, and the change is essentially instantaneous. If you need to play softly, you have to dial back the input Gain. But what if you like the sound with the Gain control higher? Unfortunately with this amp, you are pretty much out of luck.

The M9 is a very good sounding amp with significant power, but I do wish the taper of the Master was a bit more progressive.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DJ Bebop, agedhorse and gtirard
#3
DELACIUS said:
Hey all,
I've been searching for this topic for long time, couldn't find anything about it.

So I've been using Markbass for more than 15 years, I had some other amps in my possession during that period but always kept my MB (Phil Jones, GRbass, Fender, etc.)
Maybe because I had a deal with local music shop and I was endorsing MB, or just because I really think that these amps are really good.

So my friend wants to switch from Phil Jones M300 to Darkglass, so we went to local music shop to try Darkglass amps.

We had DarkGlass E500, Darkglass Microtubes v2 900, Phil Jones M300 and my MB Big Bang.

So what I was noticing is that on some amps (most of them) you can really push the volume knob, I mean that Darkglass e500, you could have it all the way up, sounded clean, while on my MB I can go over 12 o'clock, it starting to loose the clarity.

Phil jones same, you could push it all the way up It would hold on.
Have to say we were really careful of input gain so that wasn't the thing.

I mean the volume on MB at half is almost whole power of the amp, from 12 o'clock to all the way is almost no difference. And on Darkglass from 12 o'clock to all the way there is still a lot of power.

I mean they were at same volume, but why they make volume knob with that much of a difference.
Have any of you ever played MB with volume all the way up... I had Little Mark 2, Little Mark 3, Ninja and Big Bang, none of those amps could go so I have volume all the way up.

I'm asking that because Darkglass was so crystal clear and with my MB I was struggling to tell if it's distorting or not. Why almost half of volume knob is unusable?

The cab was Barefaced BB2, later on we went on Ampeg 8x10 and same thing like MB has more power that he can take all the way up, and E500 was insanely clear when all the way up.

Sorry for my English it's not the first language.
Click to expand...
I'll comment only the volume pot taper. When manufacturer uses pot that gives everything in the first half of the range (MB, Hartke HA series etc.) the amp feels more powerful than amp that gives full power much later in the range (Mesa Subway, Darkglass etc.). Especially applicable when tested at the shop. It is annoying and luckily not that common anymore.
 
  • Like
Reactions: agedhorse, jnewmark, DELACIUS and 1 other person
#4
"SEE HOW LOUD IT IS! AND I AM ONLY ON THREE!"

Wow... that is a powerful amp. I will take it.


(Even though it is about at full power and will do nothing more after this point.)


Different designs... Different goals.

Knob location means nothing.

Having the full rang is best for low volume playing/gigs, you are not jumping from, "Can't hear it, to "HOLY CRAP... Turn that thing down!" levels.
The sweet spot is easy to find for the low level gig as well as lets bring the thunder, just turn the knob.
 
  • Like
Reactions: rapidfirerob, Gearhead17, DJ Bebop and 3 others
#6
DELACIUS said:
Yea you are right, but why do they do so you can go beyond 12 if you actually can not... so weird...
Click to expand...

Well like other's said, some build the amp to get loud quickly, getting there before you reach midrange on the knob pointer. Other's give a more linear increase over the range of the pot. And half way on the knob isn't necessarily half power. And since half power is not necessarily half loudness, then why all the concern?

Pointers on knobs are just there so you can get to whatever setting you like more easily. Beyond that, they really have no meaning that correlates to anything technical.

I used to mess with the guitarist by pulling his knobs and putting them back on in a different position. He didn't figure it out until he turned the knobs through their full range and saw that the pointers, at minimum and maximum weren't in their normal locations.
 
  • Like
Reactions: rapidfirerob, Gearhead17, S-Bigbottom and 2 others
#8
I know it's graphic, but with my Markbass I'm never sure if the amp is not overpowering itself, if the sound is clear, while on Darkglass you can go all the way and still have the clear sound.
I don't know if you know what I'm saying, but sound really changes after noon, which I think is a bad thing... that's why it's not just graphic if the sound changes drastically because of volume.
 
#9
Irrespective of control positions, are you able to get the Markbass amp as loud and undistorted as the other amps of similar power ratings? If yes, then the actual position of the Gain and Master controls really isn't important.
I have several Markbass heads and also find that with the Gain usually set between 12 and 2 o'clock I never go past 12 o'clock on the Master. At those settings my speakers are as loud as I ever need them without nasty distortion.
If the taper on the Master control is different on the Markbass amp I wonder if the same is true of the Gain pot? Perhaps backing off the Gain to 9 o'clock allows the Master control to turn further before hitting full output?
Once again though, if you can achieve the same level of clean output then knob position is not important. I have never had a problem setting the output on my Markbass heads from "bedroom quiet" to "large hall loud".
 
  • Like
Reactions: DELACIUS and Marko 1
#10
Old Garage-Bander said:
I used to mess with the guitarist by pulling his knobs and putting them back on in a different position. He didn't figure it out until he turned the knobs through their full range and saw that the pointers, at minimum and maximum weren't in their normal locations.
Click to expand...
Wow! That's really mischievous; just imagine if someone did that to our bass rigs! Could be expensive.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DELACIUS and Old Garage-Bander
#11
Sparky Mark said:
Wow! That's really mischievous; just imagine if someone did that to our bass rigs! Could be expensive.
Click to expand...

LOL. Yeah, he would always be bashing my SS bass amp. All of 25 watts (so somewhat deserved I guess but it was 1968 so...). But pretty hard to blow up that amp by cranking it.

But it really started because his first amp was a Silvertone guitar case with the built-in amp. Sort of an amplifier arms war. It was a garage band, more "practices" than gigs, though we had a few. It was mostly for fun, and the parents were convinced it was better than spending nights/weekends/summers cruisin' the main drag. Whenever we played a party we said it was like a Sweet 16 birthday party. Our Moms and Dads assumed from the age that no booze was involved and there would be plenty of parental supervision. Though the responsible parents would have their own "special" punch bowl. Not that I would've imbibed being underage myself. ;)
 
  • Like
Reactions: rapidfirerob, S-Bigbottom and Sparky Mark
#13
Besides volume knob position and taper, voicing affects the perceived volume.

I have an EA iAmpMicro and an Ashdown OriginAL, both rated the same 300W. At their "peaks" (i.e. as loud as they can go without sounding like crap, the max useful volume), the Ashdown sounds louder. It also sounds fuller and thicker. The EA is very clean of course, it doesn't have the same girth but gives more definition overall. Which is better? Neither, they're just different. Which is truly louder? Maybe with some lab equipment you'd find they each output the same volume, but any human ear would say the Ashdown is louder.

Also consider the truism that systems tend to fail at their interfaces or at their performance limits. That's why if your bass/pedals/amp/speaker system isn't working, the first thing to check are the cables/connections (interfaces). And if those are fine, the failure most likely occurred in a component that was pushed too far, or too close to its performance limit for too long. (And of course better system designs minimize the chances anything will be pushed too hard.)

My point is that it's best to keep gear in it's "operating zone", meaning I don't like to push any amp (or speaker) past what I feel is about 80% of its full capability. Pushing things too hard for too long is courting failure. So when you choose an amp, think of ~80% as it's max volume, and if that's not enough volume then you need more (more amp, more speakers, more efficiency,...).
 
  • Like
Reactions: rapidfirerob, Rich Fiscus, Old Garage-Bander and 1 other person
#14
Sparky Mark said:
Irrespective of control positions, are you able to get the Markbass amp as loud and undistorted as the other amps of similar power ratings? If yes, then the actual position of the Gain and Master controls really isn't important.
I have several Markbass heads and also find that with the Gain usually set between 12 and 2 o'clock I never go past 12 o'clock on the Master. At those settings my speakers are as loud as I ever need them without nasty distortion.
If the taper on the Master control is different on the Markbass amp I wonder if the same is true of the Gain pot? Perhaps backing off the Gain to 9 o'clock allows the Master control to turn further before hitting full output?
Once again though, if you can achieve the same level of clean output then knob position is not important. I have never had a problem setting the output on my Markbass heads from "bedroom quiet" to "large hall loud".
Click to expand...

Yes same here I'm always with my basses (except Alembic that has higher output) around 12 o'clock and never go beyond 11-12 on master volume... That's why I was surprised that you can play Darkglass all the way up with master and not get the distortion. Actually kind of liked that you can go all the way up on Darkglass, seems to have more sense. Usually when is acoustic gig Big Bang is so damn loud even at 8 o'clock.... :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sparky Mark
#15
Quilter does it like this.
20230126_164104.jpg
 
  • Like
Reactions: rapidfirerob and Old Garage-Bander

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back