• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Disadvantages to a preamp/power amp

#21
dhomer said:
I would think there's a greater disadvantage to the combo head. I don't like being "stuck" with the power options some of these heads give you. I like the idea of a preamp that creates the sound I want, then matching that with enough power to make sure that sound gets out there. I also believe buying seperate components (depends on how you shop, of course) is also a bit cheaper..
Click to expand...

And there is the difference. A 500W combo is more than enough power for me, even for outdoor shows. But if I where in a loud band I could very quickly need a lot more power. Then a pre/power amp would make more sense.

dhomer said:
I also believe buying separate components (depends on how you shop, of course) is also a bit cheaper..
Click to expand...

I find this a bit hard to believe. As long as you are comparing apples to apples, one unit is going to be cheaper than three. Cases cost money. You also have to pay for two power supplies rather than one.
 
#23
A rack rig lets you build whatever you feel you need for a system. I see NO DOWNSIDES. You can build it heavy, you can build it light, you can make it the minimum of gear or you can load it to the max with every gizmo imaginable. A rack is the way to go in my opinion if you are going to have more than a combo and cable.

The nice thing about this is it's your choice.

BOB
 
#24
joshmickelson said:
when you buy a bass head, isn't there still a preamp and a power amp section internally? It seems like you would have to figure out where the problem is coming from either way.

I need to buy my own amp set up, and I have been thinking about going with the separate pre and power amp. Are they any threads dedicated to this process? I did a search and was unsuccessful.
Click to expand...

I use a Sansamp RBI and a Mackie 1400 power amp in church only because of the weight, also I had to add a EQ and a Compressor to it to because it was hard to get the right tone. I think if you're smart you'll should get a real bass head.
 
#26
derrico1 said:
One disadvantage for a lot of players is that any empty space in their rack screams to be filled, whether they need an extra bit of gear or not.
Click to expand...


Right on, Mr. derrico1. I couldn't agree more. Aside from the fact that a rack rig will never be as lightweight or convenient as a micro head, the only major disadvantage I see is the difficulty so many have in resisting the compulsion to fill their rack with every gadget and doodad known to man. Just because someone sells all this 19" stuff doesn't mean we have to buy it and install it. The 19" rack system has turned out to be one of the greatest marketing tools ever devised, IMHO. ;):D

http://s95.photobucket.com/albums/l1...hotos00248.jpg

M. M.
 
#27
What a rack rig excels at are options and watts per buck ...

What an integrated head excels at is the interface between the pre & power amp. that and of course there is the one on/off switch.

I've flipped back and forth several times with medium to hi end preamps, low end to hi end power amps. I've come to the conclusion that I'm happiest with either a WT-800 or a GK 1001 RB II in the rack. Currently it is the WT-800 - which I flat out adore - It smokes the Eden navigator & QSC PLX 2402 tonally - and to paraphrase some politico or other - "it's the interface stupid ..." The one was designed for the other ... Same deal with the GK head vs the GK pre and a Crest. It just wasn't the same thing as the integrated head...

So for me - I'll save a little weight, although not necessarily cash and I'll give up some power. In return I get a little simpler more dialed in head... works for me, YMMV
 
#28
I don't get all the hooie about "interface" - either you are competent enough to hook up a cable or two between the two items, or you find that troublesome excess baggage. If you do elect to deal with all these troublesome "interface" problems, just don't buy one of those lame preamps that can't send out a decent amount of nominal voltage, and you are golden.

Next I'll be hearing about people who can't "interface" their speaker enclosures with their head. Oh, wait - that's an everyday occurence around here! For those people, I recommend doing a little reading (like the FAQ about impedance), or just sticking to combos for the rest of your life.
 
#30
I can't believe no one brought up the obvious disadvantage of a pre-amp/power amp rack system! Having my own rack and going back an forth with many pre-amps and bass heads, I have figured this out.

Bass heads that have driver tubes before the power amp and heads that have all power tube sections CAN NOT BE REPLICATED EXACTLY with a pre/power amp setup in a rack. You can add gizmos and other units to try and get this effect, but you are never going to achieve the actual tone of what I just described. You CAN GET CLOSE to that sound, but from my experience, the head will always sound better over the pre/power amp setup. Even amps that are relatively clean sounding will sound even cleaner through a PA designed power amp. If you want a cleaner tone, this is the route to go. MOST bass heads have a "voiced" pre-amp AND power amp that allows the amp to achieve a unique tone.

4Mal - is absolutely right about Eden heads versus the Eden pre-amp, the Eden power sections are designed to give Eden amps a specific tone.

The GK Pre-amp versus the GK 700RB head - two different worlds of tone. The GK head has that punch in the midrange that makes bass tones just stick out in the mix, but going through the rack setup (QSC head), that punchy midrange was gone in favor of more low end and cleaner high end.

If you want really clean sounds and not much amp coloration - rack systems are the way to go. Otherwise, stick to heads.
 
#32
greenboy said:
I don't get all the hooie about "interface" - either you are competent enough to hook up a cable or two between the two items, or you find that troublesome excess baggage. If you do elect to deal with all these troublesome "interface" problems, just don't buy one of those lame preamps that can't send out a decent amount of nominal voltage, and you are golden.

Next I'll be hearing about people who can't "interface" their speaker enclosures with their head. Oh, wait - that's an everyday occurence around here! For those people, I recommend doing a little reading (like the FAQ about impedance), or just sticking to combos for the rest of your life.
Click to expand...

That's a little mean, but really needs to be said around here. I think people just want other bass players to tell them how to hook stuff up without learning anything. There are so many questions around that involve reading the manual - you really tell who does not do it! I can't believe people pay X amount of dollars for gear and did not bother to read the manual before or after their purchase. I read the manual of ANY product I want to try before trying it out - that way I can set it flat and know right away what every knob does and just use my ears to figure out if it is worth it to me.

Sorry for the rant and getting off topic. The original question posted was a valid one though and should be discussed.
 
#33
Gearhead17 said:
Bass heads that have driver tubes before the power amp and heads that have all power tube sections CAN NOT BE REPLICATED EXACTLY with a pre/power amp setup in a rack. You can add gizmos and other units to try and get this effect, but you are never going to achieve the actual tone of what I just described. You CAN GET CLOSE to that sound, but from my experience, the head will always sound better over the pre/power amp setup.
Click to expand...

Good observation. Some of those who own pre/power rack rigs would not be bothered by this, however. They would just add a good all-tube head to their arsenal. If their budget allowed it, of course. :):(:)

P.S. My budget doesn't allow it. :scowl:

M. M.
 
#34
blowinblue said:
Good observation. Some of those who own pre/power rack rigs would not be bothered by this, however. They would just add a good all-tube head to their arsenal. If their budget allowed it, of course. :):(:)

P.S. My budget doesn't allow it. :scowl:

M. M.
Click to expand...

I bit the the bullet and got an svt classic. and man once you hear that tube tone you can sure mimic it was a pre/power amp but its NOT the same.
 
#35
To clarify my statements, a tube pre-amp through a PA style amp is going to be cleaner overall. You can still get that warm feeling from the tubes and SOMETIMES you can get a little tube growl out of the pre-amp. But you will not replicate power tube growl too well and like AKA Trent stated, it WILL be different sounding compared to a tube amp.
 
#36
Gearhead17 said:
To clarify my statements, a tube pre-amp through a PA style amp is going to be cleaner overall. You can still get that warm feeling from the tubes and SOMETIMES you can get a little tube growl out of the pre-amp. But you will not replicate power tube growl too well and like AKA Trent stated, it WILL be different sounding compared to a tube amp.
Click to expand...

Yeah its weird. I just got my svt and this is coming from a layman. But man i never noticed how different it is. I always used a sansamp through a hartke with the "svt style" setting. and while it sounds great it really does like the definition and warmth that the tubes give. Its like hershey chocolate to godiva.
 
#37
Not too many months ago, gas prices shot up to 4 bucks a gallon, or thereabouts. I remember reading articles about how "indy" bands were going out of business because they could not afford the gas for a full size van pulling a cargo trailer.

Of course some helpful souls suggested: Get smaller, lighter gear.

Big problem: Bands had committed themselves to the sound and feel of huge gear, and they were underwater on their investments, which meant that their only real option was to give up.
 
#38
greenboy said:
I don't get all the hooie about "interface" - either you are competent enough to hook up a cable or two between the two items, or you find that troublesome excess baggage. If you do elect to deal with all these troublesome "interface" problems, just don't buy one of those lame preamps that can't send out a decent amount of nominal voltage, and you are golden.
Click to expand...

The only problem with that is that a surprising number of the most popular preamps do not put out sufficient nominal voltage for many of the popular power amps. Also because some preamps provide lower voltage via an unbalanced connection than they do with a balanced connection, the fact that so many popular bass preamps have only an unbalanced line out (figuring the balanced out is in use as a DI) makes the voltage level issue quite prevalent.
 
#39
rbonner said:
I see NO DOWNSIDES.
Click to expand...

+1

I own and use both a head and a rack rig, depending on the circumstances. They both have their place. The head is nice for lightweight portability, but the rack is great for ... well, my power amp is capable of 2800 watts, so....

And what's with all the talk about weight? Yeah my rack weighs about 80 lbs, but I just pick it up and carry it- not a big deal.

Also, I have three preamps. So it's nice to be able to play around with different pres without having to change out the power section.

Also, as far as empty rack spaces, they make space fillers just for that... again, not a big deal.

My problem is I want to add "gizmos" to may rack, meaning I'll have to upgrade to a six-space or larger rack... or two racks... :bassist:

I agree with rbonner, there is no downside. If you want it, do it. Nothing to fear, if it's not right for you, sell it on TB! :D
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back