Disadvantages to a preamp/power amp

[rbonner]

Next I'll be hearing about people who can't "interface" their speaker enclosures with their head. Oh, wait - that's an everyday occurence around here! For those people, I recommend doing a little reading (like the FAQ about impedance), or just sticking to combos for the rest of your life.

Slap, yeah I love it. Combos forever... You could take it one step further. GUITAR HERO...

 

[dog1]

I tried the Pre/Power amp set up in a monster rack with other components. Looked cool and worked well. Got rid of it all and went to lightweight heads less then a year later. For me, bigger wasn't better.

 

[JimmyM]

Not too many months ago, gas prices shot up to 4 bucks a gallon, or thereabouts. I remember reading articles about how "indy" bands were going out of business because they could not afford the gas for a full size van pulling a cargo trailer.

Of course some helpful souls suggested: Get smaller, lighter gear.

Big problem: Bands had committed themselves to the sound and feel of huge gear, and they were underwater on their investments, which meant that their only real option was to give up.

A lot of bands pulling small gear in a cargo trailer also had to give up. There's just no good way to tour no matter how small your gear is. Even a Markbass combo or a Yamaha cocktail drumset has to go somewhere.

 

[dsanders]

when you buy a bass head, isn't there still a preamp and a power amp section internally? It seems like you would have to figure out where the problem is coming from either way.

I need to buy my own amp set up, and I have been thinking about going with the separate pre and power amp. Are they any threads dedicated to this process? I did a search and was unsuccessful.

Valid point, but I have never had a rack component go down. Not saying that it does not happen, but honestly how often does gear fail on a gig. Almost never for me, if you are using a rack and are having issues perhaps there is too much heat and ventilation is an issue. Also could be a reliability issues with the brand you prefer to use. I have never had an SWR amp flinch even after a full night of 5 / 45 min sets.

On the original question though consider this, if you use a component rig it is easier to try out different tones by swapping out your pre. Find a power amp that you like and go from pre to pre until you find your sound.

 

[Gearhead17]

This versatility issue, I think, is being overstated. Pre-amps that are available right now and some from the last 10 years are generally all clean sounding. Some warmer than others, some more transparent, and some have plain old bass sounds. Power amps - one version is really clean (just about anything out there) and the other version would be an external tube power amp. Not saying that you are going to get a bad sound with a rack setup - if you like clean tones, you will luck out really well. With the external tube power amp - well, you get a tube head in the end!

Bass heads have character to them and rack systems will generally give you the character of your bass without extra oomph. Good for some, but not for me! Don't expect to get a certain brand's pre-amp and expect it to perform like that brand's amp heads do - you will be dissappointed.

 

[Thumpinthenight]

Briefly, rack setup is more flexible, but heavier. Altho, now there are lighter power amps out there if you are willing to spend a few $$. I'm thinking of upgrading myself.

 

[seedokebass]

Sansamp RBI into the FX return on a Markbass SD800. In a way, I'm using the Markbass as just a poweramp... but I still have the option of using the EQ section in addition to the EQ on the RBI.

The only "problem" with this method is that I'm stuck to a minimum 4 ohm load, but 750 watts into two decent 8 ohm cabs is probably loud enough for almost anything

 

[greenboy]

a surprising number of the most popular preamps do not put out sufficient nominal voltage for many of the popular power amps.

What kind of pathetic bass preamp company would do such a stupid thing? Rhetorical, BTW. I've never seen a real mixer or any pro rack gear that you couldn't practically weld with. But somehow a bass-oriented company can't build one that can blow its way through a used kleenex.

 

[bass4worship]

You don't want to carry this to a gig:
Invalid Link Removed

 

[r379]

I've run several preamps through my SWR 750 Power Amp (F-1X, SVP Pro, Demeter 210, DB659 and maybe something else) and never had a problem with any of them driving the 750.

I agree with others who say versatility is a big plus. Need a different tone? Change preamps. More power? Get a bigger power amp.

 

[JimmyM]

Funny...you're right...I would think of it as hell on earth to take a rack like that to a gig, and yet I don't mind lugging an SVT and 810. I seem to be very contradictory these days.

 

[4Mal]

or maybe just audition some of the better heads out there and skip the continual this pre, that power amp process...

 

[4Mal]

Funny...you're right...I would think of it as hell on earth to take a rack like that to a gig, and yet I don't mind lugging an SVT and 810. I seem to be very contradictory these days.

I had to send my Micro 300 back to EQ for an update. Carried the WT-800 and rack. I dig the tone but I was more than happy to get the 300 back. Bass gig bag with amp on the back, music book, cables and stands in the cloth brief bag in one hand, SB112 in the other ... I'm living large ... well small actually but really it's large. I, uh - hell you know what I mean...

 

[bongomania]

I've never seen a real mixer or any pro rack gear that you couldn't practically weld with. But somehow a bass-oriented company can't build one that can blow its way through a used kleenex.

Yeah, that's been something I've cursed and wondered about many times. Nearly every studio mic pre I've ever seen is rated for +4dBu output--that's just the normal, expected spec. But bass pre's? Not so much. And I've found it's like pulling teeth getting that spec info from bass pre manufacturers. A lot of them act like they don't even know what dBu means, or what "+4dBu" refers to. I've had at least three preamp makers answer that question with "our preamp gives up to 30 dB gain, hope that helps."

 

[steveinohio]

I have to confess that I've spent loads of money buying flexibility that I've never used. Just sayin'.

This is about the best thing I have ever read on this board. So true.

 

[akaTRENT]

Funny...you're right...I would think of it as hell on earth to take a rack like that to a gig, and yet I don't mind lugging an SVT and 810. I seem to be very contradictory these days.

+1

 

[David Jayne]

I can't believe no one brought up the obvious disadvantage of a pre-amp/power amp rack system! Having my own rack and going back an forth with many pre-amps and bass heads, I have figured this out.

Bass heads that have driver tubes before the power amp and heads that have all power tube sections CAN NOT BE REPLICATED EXACTLY with a pre/power amp setup in a rack. You can add gizmos and other units to try and get this effect, but you are never going to achieve the actual tone of what I just described. You CAN GET CLOSE to that sound, but from my experience, the head will always sound better over the pre/power amp setup. Even amps that are relatively clean sounding will sound even cleaner through a PA designed power amp. If you want a cleaner tone, this is the route to go. MOST bass heads have a "voiced" pre-amp AND power amp that allows the amp to achieve a unique tone.

4Mal - is absolutely right about Eden heads versus the Eden pre-amp, the Eden power sections are designed to give Eden amps a specific tone.

The GK Pre-amp versus the GK 700RB head - two different worlds of tone. The GK head has that punch in the midrange that makes bass tones just stick out in the mix, but going through the rack setup (QSC head), that punchy midrange was gone in favor of more low end and cleaner high end.

If you want really clean sounds and not much amp coloration - rack systems are the way to go. Otherwise, stick to heads.

Aaaaand....there you go. Heads have their own sounds, rack systems are extremely customizable. If you find a head that sounds good to you, does what you want, and has enough power, you're done. If not, get ready to rack 'em up.

 

[blowinblue]

Why doesn't someone start a thread with the title 'Preamp/power amp rack rigs that you can carry in one hand'? I would do it, but I'm too shy.

M. M.

 

[joeydavidson]

I see more downsides besides weight, it's cheaper to buy an intergrated head imo, poweramps and preamps can be very expensive considering the end result, it might be my location but some of the poweramps seem to be not much cheaper than a decent midpriced head that would do the same job at a gig.

Another big downside is tone, I used to run a SVT-IIP into a 800w poweramp and that thing sounded so lifeless and horrible, I remember once seeing the singer of one of my bands frown when he saw it for the second time at rehersal ready to be plugged in, he didn't say anything which was nice of him. A solid state B4 had much better tone, and I have to presume it's because the components are all designed to work together.

That been said I think a good poweramp and preamp works if everythings been matched well, I wouldn't do it unless I had a tech or some good advice from somewhere.

 

[bongomania]

Yeah, I don't mean to be mean, but if the SVT-IIP and power amp sounded lifeless, it wasn't their fault. It's all in knowing how to match these things up properly, as you said.