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Disappointed in my findings Mesa 400+

Rockbobmel

Rockbobmel

Feb 14, 2002
4,169
2,404
Greenfield, MA(Nowheres'ville)
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#1
I just ran a test tone through my Mesa 400+ into an Eden D-410XLT--- and 100hz,90hz,80hx were quite loud, 70hz was about 70% as loud, 60hz was about 50%, 50hz,40hz were about 30% and 30hz maybe 10.

This was at it's "best" settings 2 channels all stops pulled mid 7,bass 8, treb 6, and the eq a little smiley.

I plugged my bass in and it sounded boxy for lack of a better term. I pushed in the bass shift and it smoothed out (With the bass test the lower freq were worse).

In contrast, I ran the test with my Sunn 2000S Bass 4, treb 6,cont 10 into the (Bright) channel into same cab and the test tones were all about equal except 30hz, which was about 30% of the rest.

I know the Sunn (Dynaco) is an ultra linear amp but DAMN! I thought I could coax more from the Mesa with the EQ but it seems it is more of a high power guitar amp.

For reference, I hated the Peavey V2-B. Couldn't get a bass note out of it.
 
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#3
If you are using an RTA app on your phone, the response below 100Hz and above about 105dB SPL is notoriously inaccurate. If you are doing this "test" inside, the room response will dominate everything else. Try moving your device a couple of feet and see what happens to the readings.

Also, there is some voicing change depending on the position of the input level control, and at very high gains (unusable in practice) may in fact lose low frequency response.

Measurements like this, especially when done inaccurately, can lead folks to believe things that are not in fact true. Amps are voiced for specific tone families, you might try just plugging your bass into the amp and adjust for a tone you like, not a tone your phone might think it likes for you. It's also possible that you do not care for the voicing of an amp that the next player might prefer over your choice. Every player has different (not better) tastes.

Also, in reference to Dynaco being an "ultra-linear" amp, that has nothing to do with its response curve but to do with a specific feedback topology used within the output stage. It's an unfortunate naming as it causes people to think that it's something it's not (like you have).
 
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#4
The 400 series is generally an amp that goes lean in the lows and has a hyped mid range. It's a very different animal, tonally speaking, than say an SVT. Like most Mesas, it requires some tweaking and experimenting to get the magic out of it. The push-pull pots are very useful and can help you adapt to certain rooms and cabinets.
 
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#5
Thanks. I'm no tech so I prolly used the term wrong as you stated. I was using downloaded test tracks > itunes> iphone. I ran the signal through a 1/8 to 1/4" adapter > amp input.
My evaluation is by ear estimates and not a RTA. But the differences were profound and not subtle.
However, everything was the same except the amps. I used the proper 8 ohm taps.
I understand tastes are subjective. And yes, my tastes are more toward the Sunn amp. I'm just not willing to cart a 30" 60# piece of history around to clubs.
 
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#6
Rockbobmel said:
I understand tastes are subjective. And yes, my tastes are more toward the Sunn amp. I'm just not willing to cart a 30" 60# piece of history around to clubs.
Click to expand...

If you are not hip already, you may want to check out Correct Sound Custom, which is a Russian company. They make a lot of gear designed to replicate vintage Sunn gear. It's obviously not the same as plugging straight into a real Sunn, but their stuff is high quality and would be a good alternative to using a legit vintage Sunn.
 
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#8
Rockbobmel said:
Pretty good. I would like to get more low end out of it though.
Click to expand...

If it sounds pretty good as-is, then more low end may make the live mix suffer. I've had sound guys at certain venues where I ask them to keep me out of the subs. But depends on your tastes and that of the band. And also may be cab-dependent. Some amps just click better with certain cabs. I'm not an Eden guy though so totally ymmv.
 
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#9
I know. I understand that. I have a few SS amps that I was using and started romancing the idea of a tube amp. I sorted out some possibilities and passed on a Shaw 150, an Orange AD200, and an Aguilar 359, mostly for form factor. I wanted something to top on my Bag End S15-D, XD stack. Then the Boogie came at a great price with Winged C tubes (which I added up and they cost more than what I paid). I'm trying real hard to love this amp.
 
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#11
Human memory sucks. Who knows if what you heard was really what you heard or what you think you heard.
Record the amps with the method of your choice. Compare on a digital platform - that way you eliminate the biggest variables; your ears and your memory as well as your possibly different position at any instant during the test.

Er, I mean you don't have to get that scientific or anything really - you either like the amp enough to use it or you don't.
 
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#12
Rockbobmel said:
I know the Sunn (Dynaco) is an ultra linear amp but DAMN! I thought I could coax more from the Mesa with the EQ but it seems it is more of a high power guitar amp.
Click to expand...

You are the first person i've ever heard suggest this. I've owned the 400+, gigged with it, and never had a want for power nor did I have problems cutting through with it. It's definitely not the heaviest low end and it didn't have much in common with a lot of other of the classic tube amps, but it was very loud, really sweet sounding, very well built, and it killed it every time I needed it to. My personal view is if you are just using your ears and guesstimating what you think you hear and then posting it on here, it's doing a disservice to Mesa and might turn people off an otherwise excellent amp. My .02
 
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#15
Oftentimes the sub bass frequencies are the culprit in poor overall bass tone. By focusing more on the low mids and dialing back the subs, the tone evens out. You can't really discern the lowest register at high volumes, anyway, it just sounds like an earthquake. Maybe the engineers at Mesa are aware of this and designed their amps to combat it right out of the box. Like Nostatic said in post #8, some amps work better with different cabs. That sure simplifies things for buyers! Not only do we have to decide on what amp to buy, but now we've got to accessorize cabs, too.
 
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#16
I have found out over the years that a cab has the biggest impact on tone and what is heard in the room.. I had many great amps sound like poop through certain cabs and many (so called) mediocre amps sound great through a really good cab..for instance, my mesa BB 750 didn't sound great through a SWR Goliath 4x10(or Hartke 4x10) and a friends Peavey mark IV sounded pretty killer through my Mesa RR 2x15 but just meh through his Peavey 2x15..
I owned a 400+ and it seemed to sound the best to my ear through a Mesa 2x15..that thing could move some serious air..
Take note of the flat settings of the e.q. mentioned above. It's a different tone stack than most other bass amps.
These days I use a (first gen)GenzBenz neoX 2x12. So far, every head I've ran through it sounded real good, even the mediocre stuff..
 
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#17
Agreed with "rekesbass".. Cabs do affect it.. I have a Mesa 400+ going through a Mesa PH 4/12" settings set at flat(2/10/2)
IMAG0271.jpg
and it kicks!
 
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#18
Different strokes....

I had an Eden 4-10 cab for about a week. Couldn't find a usable tone through the thing no matter what amp I tried. I even took it 60 miles away to the nearest GC and tried different basses and heads with it.

I also had an Eden Metro combo. Couldn't stand that either. Traded almost immediately.

So, for me, the cab could be part of the problem. :D
 
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