Disappointed in my tone

[SJan3]

I had the chance to play in church yesterday and was quite disappointed by how I sounded and I don’t know exactly what was different. The amp I used was a darkglass infinity 210 combo. By itself it can put out 250/275 watts. The bass used was my Dingwall Droc 5 string. While we were practicing I was told that I was too loud and my speaker was rattling. I never heard a rattle but I turned down. My master volume wasn’t at halfway either. I’ve kept it at that volume since I’ve had the amp and nobody ever complained while we were practicing. It was time for us to play and the only thing different was two backup harmony singers and the congregation. I could barely hear myself. I turned myself back up halfway again and I felt like I could barely hear myself. My guess the extra vocalist may have drowned me out. The acoustic rhythm guitar player is playing plugged up to a 15 watt amp now. That may have done it too. The last time we played at church I used the same amp with an 18vt active bass and didn’t have this issue with the volume on the amp at the same exact place. If these two women are going to be a regular thing with the group, do I need the 210 extension cabinet to go with this combo? I had been looking at the Gallien Krueger mb 212 combo. It’s rated at its full 500 watts. I want a combo amp that can handle these situations and the Gallien Krueger mb 212 looks like it can do it. The combo amp is lightweight and easy to load in and out. I know the issue isn’t the Dingwall Droc. I know what that bass is capable of.

This is at church? How loud is your team? I can't imagine needing more than a good combo amp. Could be the way certain people are being EQ'd.
Maybe it's your settings.
Something wrong here..

 

[Dusky Bass]

One thought that came to mind was that maybe your frequencies are skewed/all too low to start? Check out this video for better elaboration:

But also, huge +1 to using IEMs.

 

[pbass2]

This is at church? How loud is your team? I can't imagine needing more than a good combo amp. Could be the way certain people are being EQ'd.
Maybe it's your settings.
Something wrong here..

Yeah, sounds like an overall stage mix issue. Or at least start there before throwing money at more gear. Maybe the acoustic player is EQ'd with too much low end for example. That can really eat up a lot of space and "mask" the bass at times.

 

[SJan3]

Maybe partially. The sound guy yesterday was their father. I’m not saying he purposely turned them up but the guitarist hinted at that after church was over when we talked. He was already in a foul mood because the lead singer called him and said she couldn’t make it because she was sick

I'd find another church. Foul moods in church. Why are y'all there?

 

[SJan3]

Yeah, sounds like an overall stage mix issue. Or at least start there before throwing money at more gear. Maybe the acoustic player is EQ'd with too much low end for example. That can really eat up a lot of space and "mask" the bass at times.

Agreed. I've had that conflict with both guitar players and keyboardists. They need to learn to cool it with the bass and allow us to do our job.

 

[AK Bass Guy]

You could do what I did when I was playing DB in bluegrass setting.
Back story:
When playing DB for bluegrass everyone’s wedges were always too hot, and I would have to crank up my amp to hear myself over the wedges. Putting the DB into the wedges was just never a good experience, usually feedback issues, so I just didn’t bother with it going into wedges. So the amp was my monitor, but guess what, everyone always thought the amp was too loud, even when it barely on.

So here is what I did.
I would split the signal from my DB, send one signal to the DI, this way whoever wanted could ask for it.
On the other side of signal split I ran it to a small 2 channel mixer which I plugged ear buds into.
Then I would just pop one side of the buds into my ear leaving my other ear open to listen to the room or wedges.

After that I always heard myself.
Sometimes it’s best not to fight it and just cover your butt.

 

[P Coburn]

The lead guitarist.

Being a guitarist, now bassist, THAT is a laugh. Guitarists are too often chided for turning up after sound check, Lead Guitarists especially!

 

[klokker]

I played in a praise band at a pretty big mega church for a while. When I first got there, the soundman told me flat out he didn't want to hear the bass at all.

Really. That was the problem.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

I had the chance to play in church yesterday and was quite disappointed by how I sounded and I don’t know exactly what was different. The amp I used was a darkglass infinity 210 combo. By itself it can put out 250/275 watts. The bass used was my Dingwall Droc 5 string. While we were practicing I was told that I was too loud and my speaker was rattling. I never heard a rattle but I turned down. My master volume wasn’t at halfway either. I’ve kept it at that volume since I’ve had the amp and nobody ever complained while we were practicing. It was time for us to play and the only thing different was two backup harmony singers and the congregation. I could barely hear myself. I turned myself back up halfway again and I felt like I could barely hear myself. My guess the extra vocalist may have drowned me out. The acoustic rhythm guitar player is playing plugged up to a 15 watt amp now. That may have done it too. The last time we played at church I used the same amp with an 18vt active bass and didn’t have this issue with the volume on the amp at the same exact place. If these two women are going to be a regular thing with the group, do I need the 210 extension cabinet to go with this combo? I had been looking at the Gallien Krueger mb 212 combo. It’s rated at its full 500 watts. I want a combo amp that can handle these situations and the Gallien Krueger mb 212 looks like it can do it. The combo amp is lightweight and easy to load in and out. I know the issue isn’t the Dingwall Droc. I know what that bass is capable of.

I’’m going to ask a couple of questions, when you are practicing, is the sound on in the house (FOH ‘support)?

The second question pertains to your EQ. Do you play with a lot of low end and or have effects like a sonic maximizer that scoop out the low mids? The main reason here is you need low mids like 165 hz to 200hz way more than ultra low frequencies to hear yourself in the mix. Also, a lot of ultra low frequencies can cause rattles all over the place, and worse yet, can be a significant cause of stage wash.

Lastly, does the sound persons know what they are doing? And finally have you had a respectful conversation with them about your needs, and how you can get what you need to do your ministry job without screwing up the mix in the sanctuary?

What I’ve found useful when using FOH systems is starting out with a flat EQ (meaning it sounds sort of like what your bass does not plugged in. Leaving your treble and bass controls where they are at the moment, then boost your lower mids to the point where it doesn’t sound like a guitar, then gradually add bass to where it just qualifies as sounding like a bass, then adjust your treble if needed. If it’s still too trebly, roll off the treble on your bass to suit.

Now total disclaimer here. It is going to sound like crap for a while when you are playing by yourself, but in the ensemble it will be clear, articulate and present at a much lower sound level, and surprisingly it will have have enough “bass”. The sound techs will be able to add in as much low end as they want in the house mix.

Hope this helps and best wishes with your ministry.

 

[Michael Milner]

Our rehearsals tend to sound a lot different. That’s why I’m confused. There are no technical problems with the amp. No issues with my bass. By the way, no drummer. The only thing I can tell you is that the sound man was the two lady’s father. Honestly they were pretty loud but I don’t know I would say too loud. Can people in the audience or congregation affect how sound bounces around? And I can tell you that the microphone squealed a few times(cordless Mike). The guitar player knows a lot more about sound than this man does. He told me that this gentleman went back there messing with the sound system while we were playing. When our lead singer called out, these two ladies became the lead singer. They were kind of filling in. I don’t know why their dad took it on himself to go back there and mess with the PA system. That’s probably my problem somehow. I’ve found that in a band setting, sometimes we effect the way other people sound. If a guitar and bassist are playing in the same frequencies it can make the bass muddy. I don’t know completely about the singers and the fill in sound guy being the cause of my issue but it’s mighty funny that I was loud enough before he got there with the second daughter while we were practicing before church. Bear with me, I’m still learning. As I’ve said before, I’ve never messed with sound and PA systems. I’ve ALWAYS played through an amp and let the others do their thing.

Since the rehearsals sound different, that should be an indication that something wasn't right at the service. Obviously I wasn't there, but if the PA levels for the vocalists are set at a certain level, and at the service somebody decides to start adjusting the sound during the performance, I think we know what happened.

 

[John D Harris]

If you've solved the issue, that's great, if not, check out the new GK Legacy 115 Combo - kind of medium size, but still can kick major Arse.

 

[StratoBlaster23]

I had the chance to play in church yesterday and was quite disappointed by how I sounded and I don’t know exactly what was different. The amp I used was a darkglass infinity 210 combo. By itself it can put out 250/275 watts. The bass used was my Dingwall Droc 5 string. While we were practicing I was told that I was too loud and my speaker was rattling. I never heard a rattle but I turned down. My master volume wasn’t at halfway either. I’ve kept it at that volume since I’ve had the amp and nobody ever complained while we were practicing. It was time for us to play and the only thing different was two backup harmony singers and the congregation. I could barely hear myself. I turned myself back up halfway again and I felt like I could barely hear myself. My guess the extra vocalist may have drowned me out. The acoustic rhythm guitar player is playing plugged up to a 15 watt amp now. That may have done it too. The last time we played at church I used the same amp with an 18vt active bass and didn’t have this issue with the volume on the amp at the same exact place. If these two women are going to be a regular thing with the group, do I need the 210 extension cabinet to go with this combo? I had been looking at the Gallien Krueger mb 212 combo. It’s rated at its full 500 watts. I want a combo amp that can handle these situations and the Gallien Krueger mb 212 looks like it can do it. The combo amp is lightweight and easy to load in and out. I know the issue isn’t the Dingwall Droc. I know what that bass is capable of.

Just get yourself another cabinet to stack with your Darkglass combo if you can afford it.

 

[Jogobass]

I spent some time at jazz session. The other bassists invariably don't consider their position in respect to the amp. They will sit beside the amp or even behind it, thinking that the low frequencies will transfer all around the amp. But the trick to hearing yourself is in the mids. And they project forward. So I always put the amp behind me, preferable elevated or angled. The room will get the lows and I get the mids I need to hear myself without needing to turn the volume up.

 

[Cory rich40]

Now here is an idea. We’ve mentioned getting the darkglass combo closer to ear level. I have a Fender rumble 115 cabinet I never use. I could just bring that cabinet and use it as something to sit the darkglass combo on. I could even connect the two of them together if I wanted to. Not really sure darkglass amps and fender cabinets would sound good together though

 

[6thplanet]

Definitely get your amp up or angled back. The Fender cab could be great for both getting the combo amp up and as an additional speaker. Try it, nothing to lose.

 

[rodl2005]

Getting your speakers pointing AT your ears helps immensely

 

[JazznFunk]

I spent some time at jazz session. The other bassists invariably don't consider their position in respect to the amp. They will sit beside the amp or even behind it, thinking that the low frequencies will transfer all around the amp. But the trick to hearing yourself is in the mids. And they project forward. So I always put the amp behind me, preferable elevated or angled. The room will get the lows and I get the mids I need to hear myself without needing to turn the volume up.

This is why you have to at least sound check far out front so you can hear what the audience hears, and get THAT dialed in. I've definitely played some stages where you have no other choice but to stand over (or beside) the amp. It sucks. You will never know what you truly sound like in that scenario. Usually, in my decades of experience, if you dial it in so it sounds good while you're right on top of your amp, it's too trebly/middy out front, and POSSIBLY too boomy. If it sounds muffled and 'thin' on top of your amp.... you're usually close out front. But YMMV depending on the room. Get a 20' cord at least, and get out front to tweak.... then learn how THAT sounds sitting on your amp.

 

[Kaa]

I played in a praise band at a pretty big mega church for a while. When I first got there, the soundman told me flat out he didn't want to hear the bass at all.

Really. That was the problem.

Yeah, I think the OP just had Singer Dad go all Lars Ulrich on the board.

 

[EricOnTheBass]

My guess the extra vocalist may have drowned me out.

First time I’ve ever heard something like this.

 

[Deleted member 271037]

It's obviously impossible to say anything for certain without actually being there, but rattling speaker + can't hear yourself properly sounds like it MIGHT be a case of too much lows and not enough mids.