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Discussing tone etc in a band setting...

LinusKarlsson

LinusKarlsson

Oct 31, 2010
478
966
Örebro, Sweden
#1
I posted in another thread where the OP wondered about if his bass, stings etc. were suited for the the band he was in. I suggested that he'd talk to his band mates about it, which got some mixed replies. "Most bandmates don't care about the bass" and so on.

That got me thinking. In my current band, and most of the others I've been in, that has been an often discussed subject. Not just regarding the bass, but every instrument. We offer each other input on how we feel a certain part should be played, what sound is best suited, fitting beat patterns and so on. Everything with the purpose of serving the song and the sound of the band. I find that to be a very relaxed and creative atmosphere, and noting that's at all controversial.

"Put some fuzz on that part, it will stand out more."
"Could you try with straight 8-notes here, if fits better."
"What about a steady 4/4 beat over this riff, it would swing!"
"I'm thinking of playing this solo part on the mellotron instead of the synth, what do you guys think?"

Have I just been lucky with the bands I have been in, or is this something that more bands do? How would you feel about asking your band mates for opinions on your tone or how you approach a certain part or song? About be given advice? About giving advice and sharing your ideas?

I thought this was kinda natural, but it seems that it really isn't.
 
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#3
Depends on the kind of band. I have mostly only played in cover bands. The last was quite inexperienced. The bass player came from a different background than rock, so he'd make basslines too busy. I would tell him "8th notes on the root until we get to the end" Since he was more than capable and bored, he'd sing harmony where it didn't need it (or live when we weren't expecting it). The other guitar players didn't have a good control over their tone or volume. One guy loved to buy stuff and literally unbox it at rehearsal. That was a problem. The two of them would go at it a bit over tone (which one guy though equated to volume). I don't play with these guys any more.

The other project I have is a blues jam where we murder the classics. Everyone is very agreeable. We share the bass player with my old project, but he *really* doesn't know the blues but he's got a lot more liberty to experiment. We do tell the drummer to lay back a bit since he speeds up on the second pass (I can't play the riffs).

What I learned from both these experiences is that you have to have a common language to discuss it in. The first band above was so inexperienced that it was hard discussing anything because the lexicon wasn't there.
 
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#4
I don't think I'd be in a band where this wasn't the norm, covers or original. Not necessarily so much about tone, more about song format and line choices. So long as it's presented with a "why don't we try this" approach (not a "dude, what you're doing really blows" attitude) there shouldn't be any issues. I might question a tone choice if it's too radical; I doubt that I have ever told KB or guitar to dirty the sound more. I have no issue with another member doing the same with me - I care very much that the band likes what I'm doing.
 
#5
mrcbass said:
I don't think I'd be in a band where this wasn't the norm, covers or original. Not necessarily so much about tone, more about song format and line choices. So long as it's presented with a "why don't we try this" approach (not a "dude, what you're doing really blows" attitude) there shouldn't be any issues. I might question a tone choice if it's too radical; I doubt that I have ever told KB or guitar to dirty the sound more. I have no issue with another member doing the same with me - I care very much that the band likes what I'm doing.
Click to expand...

Exactly. It's got to be creative and serve the song and general sound of the band. And when there's a good atmosphere in the band there is no need for anyone to tell anyone else that what they're doing blows. I find it natural. We're in a band together, it's not supposed to be 3 guys with huge egos doing what they think is best without regard to the other guys.
 
#6
Arrangements, yes.

Tone, no. Not unless it is glaringly bad (in which case there are bigger issues afoot). Your tone is like your golf game or fantasy football team - no one really gives much of a poopie except you. And worrying about someone else's (assuming it's not completely awful) seems like an even bigger time suck. No one in the audience is paying anywhere near that much attention.*

*Studio is a different story, in that case all the details matter since the eventual listening environment is likely much different.
 
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#7
I don't mind, but when I'm playing a bass line that rocks and I'm asked to changed it to something that sucks, I will gladly try it out. Bottom line though, if I like my way better I will stick to it. Unless I'm being paid to play what someone else wants me to, but I don't play for money much. I've never played with any band members who know more about bass than I do.

With tone I am always told that it is great, even when I know it's not. I truly believe that most people don't have a clue what a bass should sound like.
 
#8
I generally play in acoustic settings so usually the tone is not something that can be changed with the turn of a knob. But dynamics are surely important and require discussion. Some with other arrangement considerations. It's almost required to talk things out and make suggestions to come out of it with a cohesive arrangement. It helps a ton when you have experienced musicians that know how to tastefully play in an ensemble. Usually less to discuss then because everyone is doing the right thing from the start.
 
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#9
The cover band that was in had three guitarists and they were always making suggestions on pick-up choice and clean/dirty tone. Some of them took the advice better than others. They cared very little about what I was doing on bass. Since it was a cover band, I worked on getting the same sound from my bass as the original tune and that worked OK. For the drummer and I, it was a source of small amusement.
In the new trio, we are far more critical of the tone from both the bass & guitar. No egos in this trio though so we are always willing to try what the other members suggest and generally agree when the right sound is found. This is one of the things that makes this band such a great source of joy.
 
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#10
A buddy and I were discussing this a few days ago. His theory is that only other guitar players care about tone (bass or guitar) or execution. I theorized that only the one playing the instrument really cares.

Most civilians have no idea what they are listening to. They want to clearly hear the vocals and like it when they know the songs.

That being said, I try and make my tone the best possible because I have pride.
 
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#11
I have a lot of respect for the other guys in my band and I periodically ask them how they think my bass sounds. So far none of them have expressed an actual opinion on any aspect of my sound except for volume. I think the only relevant factors are "Can I hear it?" and "Is it stepping on my part?"
 
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#13
A knowledgeable opinion is valuable; anything less is a guess. Unless you’re an experienced bass player or producer, I will not place much weight on your opinion about bass tone. When it comes to tone, we have to rely on the expertise of the player, and that’s the one who has devoted decades to learning his/her craft.
 
#15
As far as strictly tone goes, in my cover band I mimic the tones of the songs we are playing. If I need bright and clangy with a pick, I do it. Warm fingerstyle plucking at the heel of the neck, i do it. Slaps and pops, I do it. When I first joined this band they actually had issue with this because the previous bassist used the same tone through everything. They wanted it to sound that way which I thought was boring and eventually they agreed. In an original project I would think there is more leeway to have a particular singular tone like Rush or Yes, etc.
 
#16
buldog5151bass said:
Depends. IMO band members can, and should, be able to discuss anything in a respectful manner.
Click to expand...
I totally agree with this, though in our originals band we mostly reserve an opinion on what each other is coming up with unless one is either obviously creatively stuck or their part just doesn't musically jive with the vibe the rest of us are feeling. Most of our songs come together this way very organically, then our lead guitarist (who's also the most gifted at playing, as well as arranging) will offer up any proposals on changes as well as add his icing to our cake.

^ His main instrument is actually drums, so I can understand how he might hear a potential for a different drumbeat in his own head to offer up to the drummer, but the rest of us aren't as 'instrumentaly diverse' or even as experienced in a band setting to do so.

Can you believe this guy is also very humble?? It's true ... he really does exist, I swear! :laugh:
 
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#17
I agree on the arrangements vs. tone distinction. We certainly make suggestions about arrangements. Sometimes, usually on originals, and especially if I'm the one bringing in the main idea for the song, I might suggest that the guitarist's part should be clean or dirty or that he should do some high spacy swirly thing. But for the most part I trust him to decide how he want to execute that, and for the most part my bandmates trust me the same way.

In the first band I ever gigged in, at one rehearsal the guitarist/BL, who had done the band thing way longer than me, asked if he could work with my EQ. He was polite about it and I respected his experience so I said sure. Normally, out of 10, I had my low/mid/hi set about 7/7/4. He played with it and made it about 9/2/8 - basically a big mid-scoop. That sounded great and I left it like that. Then at our next gig, in the room, we start the first song and he shouts across at me to turn down. I didn't think I was cranked up very loud and asked why. "Turn down, it sounds really BOOMY!" he says. "Boomy," I think. I leave the volume where it is and put the EQ back to 7/7/4. "How's that?" "Much better, perfect!"
 
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#20
In general I've run into two types in bands regarding the OP.

1 - players who've mailed in their tone/setup years ago, are gonna do what they do, and are inflexible
2 - players who understand that there needs to an effort to serve the dynamics of the music, and the available frequency spectrum we all need to work in.

One of my really, really good friends is #1. He's a great player, but he's in his own world and doesn't process the sound around him at all. Push play and go is pretty much it with him. We played together for about 2 years, and it was exceedingly frustrating. Guitar Eq'd too low, vocals Eq'd too low....just swallowed up a lot of my notes live.
 

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