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Disorganized band... is it worth it?

Hi all. I've been playing electric bass with a "traditional" jazz band that started as a favor to a friend that had been filling in. This started in July of last year. I've been playing music since age 9, guitar almost 40 years and electric bass 2 years. I read music and charts in treble and bass clefs, I've been playing a long time, most of it jazz but some rock and I'm game to try just about any style as long as everyone has a good attitude.

This started originally as a fill-in gig for a music teacher that was playing with this band as a favor and um, couldn't make a rehearsal. Since I'm still learning the ropes on bass, he asked me to cover the rehearsal. I came back, not terribly impressed with the band - its mostly hobbyists who have some talent but... they're not very good as a group, although there are some good individual musicians - and I said to my friend "You want me to take this over for you to get out of it?" He laughed and said "Yes" and I have continued to play with them and they've slowly started gigging...

I play for fun, this is the only band I'm in right now and would like to play in a band again - I played a lof of guitar in jazz groups in high school and college - so I've not done a lot to seek out other opportunities to play, but, I stuck with this band from July until Feb, quit because I wasn't having any fun, didn't get paid for the last gig... and also because the rehearsals and gigs have been a disaster of disorganization. The band leader is overloading people with sheet music that's way outside the capabilities of the band, and has had issues securing rehearsal space. So much discussion and screwing around takes place between songs that typically in 2-3 hours of rehearsal we might play 6 or 7 songs, so the set list isn't filling up nearly fast enough.

The band generally has 8-10 players for rehearsals and gigs - depends on who can make it - and has a regularly monthly gig that kills a weekend afternoon. Anyway, after leaving in February, I found out via the drummer they were still having trouble filling the bass player spot with a competent player, so I caved and asked if they'd like me to help them out again, and went to rehearsal this weekend at a "new spot..."

Which turned out to be a non AC'ed light industrial garage space on a day it was in the 90s when the rehearsal started, dirty, dusty. I'm in my 50s and have played in a ton of places for rehearsals and gigs and this was by far the worst place I've ever played in. To top it off, we spent so much time (I record the rehearsals and gigs) screwing around again that in the 2 hours I was there for rehearsal that again 5 songs were played in 2 hours of recording. Just ridiculous.

I told the leader when I arrived the practice conditions were deplorable. I wasn't nasty, I was just straight forward. (I'm really not trying to sound like a prima donna). I didn't want to be a jerk, though, so I stayed for the actual 15 minutes of playing that was done in 2 hours of rehearsal. I know they don't have a bassist for next week's gig, and I won't be a jerk and do that one as well, but I did mention to the band leader it was this kind of crap that led me to quit in the first place. Even if something is for fun - and this band is - it needs to be something that acts somewhat professional - and this band has potential to improve if the set list is dialed back to something less ambitious and less practice time is devoted to learning new material and instead improving on the set list we have.

So, part of me wants to run screaming from this again but... I don't look want to look like an ass. I also have talked about doing a thrash metal project with the drummer and I don't want to leave him or a couple of the other musicians in the band that I really like in the lurch.
So, what would TB do? Here are some options:

1) Do the 6/1 gig and quit, and politely explain the reason I quit is because the disorganization issues have simply gotten worse.

2) Hey, its a band. Look at it as practice and nothing else.

3) Work on getting into another band that knows what its doing - in the meantime, give them a deadline for things to improve, and if things don't, leave.

I do enjoy playing and playing with this group at times but I'm already just as aggravated as I was at the end of February...
 
I'm a pretty happy person but I was snarling like a mad dog when I was trying to set up for the rehearsal. That is SO not me. My business partner agreed the rehearsal facility was BS (and she had her own bands and toured in the 80s) although "one my bands rehearsed in a chicken coop regularly". That's different when you are in your teens and 20s. I like a/c and not finding my pedalboard covered with dirt after a two hour rehearsal. And then the email we get from the BL after the gig says "I'll work on getting the a/c part of the hall for the next rehearsal." That alone is enough to punt in IMHO. I made it clear to the BL I wasn't going to rehearse at this facility again - ever, and then to get this email... he just doesn't get it.
 
It sounds like you enjoy being in a band, but not necessarily this band. There are parts you like about it, but the bad might outweigh the good for you. Am I reading you right?

Out of curiosity, why couldn't you become the band leader? I mean, if you like the idea of what they're doing, and have a lot more experience doing it, think of this as a perfect opportunity to take charge and help bring them to the next level.

I would take the "band leader" aside and pitch it to him in a non-threatening way. Make it about sharing your experience and knowledge. Start by bringing up a proposed jam schedule - "we need to get through x number of songs tonight, and we have y hours to do it - so that means we need to work hard, and we'll allow some time for chit chat and more relaxed jamming at the end."
 
Hi all. I've been playing electric bass with a "traditional" jazz band that started as a favor to a friend that had been filling in. This started in July of last year. I've been playing music since age 9, guitar almost 40 years and electric bass 2 years. I read music and charts in treble and bass clefs, I've been playing a long time, most of it jazz but some rock and I'm game to try just about any style as long as everyone has a good attitude.

This started originally as a fill-in gig for a music teacher that was playing with this band as a favor and um, couldn't make a rehearsal. Since I'm still learning the ropes on bass, he asked me to cover the rehearsal. I came back, not terribly impressed with the band - its mostly hobbyists who have some talent but... they're not very good as a group, although there are some good individual musicians - and I said to my friend "You want me to take this over for you to get out of it?" He laughed and said "Yes" and I have continued to play with them and they've slowly started gigging...

I play for fun, this is the only band I'm in right now and would like to play in a band again - I played a lof of guitar in jazz groups in high school and college - so I've not done a lot to seek out other opportunities to play, but, I stuck with this band from July until Feb, quit because I wasn't having any fun, didn't get paid for the last gig... and also because the rehearsals and gigs have been a disaster of disorganization. The band leader is overloading people with sheet music that's way outside the capabilities of the band, and has had issues securing rehearsal space. So much discussion and screwing around takes place between songs that typically in 2-3 hours of rehearsal we might play 6 or 7 songs, so the set list isn't filling up nearly fast enough.

The band generally has 8-10 players for rehearsals and gigs - depends on who can make it - and has a regularly monthly gig that kills a weekend afternoon. Anyway, after leaving in February, I found out via the drummer they were still having trouble filling the bass player spot with a competent player, so I caved and asked if they'd like me to help them out again, and went to rehearsal this weekend at a "new spot..."

Which turned out to be a non AC'ed light industrial garage space on a day it was in the 90s when the rehearsal started, dirty, dusty. I'm in my 50s and have played in a ton of places for rehearsals and gigs and this was by far the worst place I've ever played in. To top it off, we spent so much time (I record the rehearsals and gigs) screwing around again that in the 2 hours I was there for rehearsal that again 5 songs were played in 2 hours of recording. Just ridiculous.

I told the leader when I arrived the practice conditions were deplorable. I wasn't nasty, I was just straight forward. (I'm really not trying to sound like a prima donna). I didn't want to be a jerk, though, so I stayed for the actual 15 minutes of playing that was done in 2 hours of rehearsal. I know they don't have a bassist for next week's gig, and I won't be a jerk and do that one as well, but I did mention to the band leader it was this kind of crap that led me to quit in the first place. Even if something is for fun - and this band is - it needs to be something that acts somewhat professional - and this band has potential to improve if the set list is dialed back to something less ambitious and less practice time is devoted to learning new material and instead improving on the set list we have.

So, part of me wants to run screaming from this again but... I don't look want to look like an ass. I also have talked about doing a thrash metal project with the drummer and I don't want to leave him or a couple of the other musicians in the band that I really like in the lurch.
So, what would TB do? Here are some options:

1) Do the 6/1 gig and quit, and politely explain the reason I quit is because the disorganization issues have simply gotten worse.

2) Hey, its a band. Look at it as practice and nothing else.

3) Work on getting into another band that knows what its doing - in the meantime, give them a deadline for things to improve, and if things don't, leave.

I do enjoy playing and playing with this group at times but I'm already just as aggravated as I was at the end of February...

Well, it seems like to much hand holding to me, and when it becomes more of a PITA than fun (or $) its time to quit and replace it. Be honest and tell the BL that you're leaving the band and if he/she is already counting on you doing the upcoming gig - do the gig... don't burn any bridges... leave in a way that the BL might still want to ask you to sub from time to time.
 
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Do the gig and quit. You are doing it for fun...and it isn't fun! Actively search for another gig. Maybe poach a couple of the better players and put something together that is more nimble and manageable. The better players most likely don't like the BS factor any more than you do.
 
I'm sorry, but I'm not from USA and I'm not familiar with this "band leader" concept, but seems like every cover band has one?

I have never been on a band where someone declared himself as the band leader, nor I think I'd like to be in one. Is everyone else in the band lazy? Nobody actually helps with band issues?

For the OP, I'd contact the band members you like to play with, to set up a new band more inclined to play.
 
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If the group was more organized, would you want to play with them? Somebody can find a suitable spot to rehearse. Somebody can choose appropriate songs and distribute the list in advance of rehearsal, to make sure that everyone comes to rehearsal ready to work through the tunes. It sounds like the current BL isn't doing it, so maybe someone else can step up?

If, on the other hand, the rehearsals go poorly because people don't learn their parts and treat rehearsal as practice time, then better organization isn't going to fix anything. I've bowed out of several groups for this reason. If people don't come to rehearsal ready to play their parts, it wastes everyone's time and will be a chronic problem. You said that there are some good individual musicians, so maybe you could invite them to join the "Wholetone Jazz Ensemble", with you as BL and make it what you want. Of course, this will mean that YOU will be the Someone who finds the rehearsal space, chooses and distributes song lists, coordinates schedules, book gigs, etc., or else find someone to help you with that.

Also, why didn't you get paid for the last gig? If someone else pocketed the money, then you have a lingering trust issue that must be resolved. I personally would not let that slide one single time.

These are the kind of questions that I'd ask before punting. Finding jazz players with the appropriate level of interest and abilities can be tricky. I wouldn't give up on them reflexively if it's just a problem of organization, since that can be fixed.
 
Thanks for the input everyone - I do appreciate your pespectives. The real core issue is the band manager, and I'd been tip toeing around that. I just sent an email letting him know (I did not email bomb the entire band - why create unnecessary drama?) that I'm done (and the reasons why) after Sunday's gig, and letting him have the option of using the sub they'd had at their last two gigs for Sunday if he feels uncomfortable having me play the gig.

One thing I don't think I mentioned in the original post is that one of the gigs, I did not get paid for - and at another, he asked that we all take a cut so that a couple of horn players he'd invited - who'd not ever practiced with us before the gig - get paid for "coming on out" even though they added nothing to the gig and they actually didn't have adequate equipment to play!

Another thing I did not mention, this regulary monthly gig is an all day affair for $15-$20 bucks for a crafts fair - and in addition to a two hour main set, the fair wants us to have a "jam" so that they have music all day. Um, I can't be giving up an entire Sunday for $20. This is a hobby for fun for me... I don't want to be an a**hole but sometimes being a nice person is not the right decision.

And that's the only gig they have right now - except the band leader wants us to start playing a FREE gig at a flea market on another Sunday monthly. Philosophically, I have an issue about playing for free, in that it hurts working musicians, so I don't want to do that either. If you are playing for fun and not getting paid - stay in the basement or play at friend's parties, but don't depress the already depressed market for working musicians. That's just wrong. And there's jams during the week in my city where I can play with really high quality musicians ... and have a lot more fun.

When I was at lunch yesterday, the server turned out to be a drummer who wants to start a metal project, I gave him my (musical) business card. Probably nothing will come out of it but there are other opportunities, you just have to seek them out.
 
Do the gig and quit. You are doing it for fun...and it isn't fun! Actively search for another gig. Maybe poach a couple of the better players and put something together that is more nimble and manageable. The better players most likely don't like the BS factor any more than you do.

The drummer and I have been talking about a metal thrash band project, he knows a really good metal guitarist, and I know a couple of venues here in Sacramento that are always looking for filler bands. I've been dying to do a fun metal or punk project for a long time. I mean, that's what I have 600 watts of bass amp to do ;)
 
Oh... OP saw your post about the decision you made after posting this. Went ahead and posted anyways...maybe there's still something to learn.

Hi all. I've been playing electric bass with a "traditional" jazz band that started as a favor to a friend that had been filling in. This started in July of last year.

Resume
I've been playing music since age 9
guitar almost 40 years
electric bass 2 years.
I read music and charts in treble and bass clefs
I've been playing a long time
most of it jazz but some rock
I'm game to try just about any style as long as everyone has a good attitude.
I play for fun

Other
1) this is the only band I'm in right now
2) would like to play in a band again
3) Since I'm still learning the ropes on bass, he asked me to cover the rehearsal.
4) This started originally as a fill-in gig for a music teacher that was playing with this band as a favor and um, couldn't make a rehearsal.
5) I came back, not terribly impressed with the band - its mostly hobbyists who have some talent but...
6) they're not very good as a group,
7) although there are some good individual musicians -
8) I said to my friend "You want me to take this over for you to get out of it?" He laughed and said "Yes"
9) I have continued to play with them and they've slowly started gigging...
10)has a regularly monthly gig that kills a weekend afternoon
13) this band has potential to improve
a) if the set list is dialed back to something less ambitious
b) less practice time is devoted to learning new material
c) instead improving on the set list we have.

Inaction (passive-aggressive)
1) so I've not done a lot to seek out other opportunities to play,
2) but, I stuck with this band from July until Feb,
3) didn't get paid for the last gig
4) rehearsals and gigs have been a disaster of disorganization.
5) band leader is overloading people with sheet music that's way outside the capabilities of the band
6) issues securing rehearsal space.
5) much discussion and screwing around takes place between songs
6) typically in 2-3 hours of rehearsal we might play 6 or 7 songs,
7) so the set list isn't filling up nearly fast enough
8) after leaving in February, I found out via the drummer they were still having trouble filling the bass player spot with a competent player,
9) so , and went to rehearsal this weekend at a "new spot...".
9) we spent so much time (I record the rehearsals and gigs) screwing around again
10) that in the 2 hours I was there for rehearsal that again 5 songs were played in 2 hours of recording.
11) part of me wants to run screaming from this again but...
12) I caved and asked if they'd like me to help them out again
13) I didn't want to be a jerk, though,
14) I'm really not trying to sound like a prima donna.
15) I wasn't nasty, I was just straight forward.
16) I don't look want to look like an ass.
17) I stayed for the actual 15 minutes of playing that was done in 2 hours of rehearsal
18) I don't want to leave him or a couple of the other musicians in the band that I really like in the lurch.
19) I'm in my 50s and have played in a ton of places for rehearsals and gigs and this was by far the worst place I've ever played in.
20) in the meantime, give them a deadline for things to improve, and if things don't, leave.
21) I do enjoy playing and playing with this group at times
22) but I'm already just as aggravated as I was at the end of February...
23) politely explain the reason I quit is because the disorganization issues have simply gotten worse.
24) Hey, its a band. Look at it as practice and nothing else.
25) Even if something is for fun - and this band is -
26) it needs to be something that acts somewhat professional -


Action
1) quit because I wasn't having any fun,
2) I told the leader when I arrived the practice conditions were deplorable.
3) I also have talked about doing a thrash metal project with the drummer
4) Do the 6/1 gig and quit,
5) Work on getting into another band that knows what its doing
Sometimes it helps to break down paragraphs into outline form to see what's really going on. :)

Being that you're still hanging out with the "band" after 11 months and based on the sole fact that the band leader stole money from you and you still went back to rehearse/gig with them, it appears to me that you're used to taking abuse over long periods of time and not acting quickly and decisively in your own best interest.

You state that you're "not in it for the money", seems to me that you're also not in it for people to steal from you. You have to take a stand and do what's right and what's best for yourself!

I suggest you call the "band leader" NOW to account for his past actions and demand cash payment for the previous gig money he stole from you as a condition for playing the 6/1 gig. If he doesn't pay you, don't do the 6/1 gig. If he does pay you (cash only) and ONLY after he pays you, based on not being paid timely for the last gig, demand cash up front to show up for the 6/1 gig. If he doesn't pay you upfront, don't show up.

Don't worry about the other musicians. They are big boys and can take care of themselves, just as you should be doing. Don't worry about being seen an "ass", "jerk", "prima donna", or "nasty" or negative thing you can call yourself. You're acting in your own best interest and people will respect you more for being decisive. If anyone gets "mad" about your decision, just keep repeating that the "band leader" stole from you and that is not acceptable.

After this situation is resolved, I suggest you direct your music teacher to this thread since you originally took over the gig from him just to give him some understanding of how and why things turned out the way they did.

Moving past the band situation, based on my reading, you state several times that the band is "fun" and you play for "fun" and that "I do enjoy playing and playing with this group at times". IMO/IME in the mental health field, this is how an abused spouse describes why he/she stays with the abuser. In the abused's mind, focusing on the 5% that's good somehow makes up for all the crap that he/she is being put through. :(

If you can see that you're acting passive-agressivenessly and want to move on from that, IME, you can't do it on your own. Having a coach would get you there sooner. To start things off, I also suggest the self-help book 8 Keys to Eliminating Passive-Aggressiveness by Andrea Brandt.

IME, I wasted too much of of my life being unhappy about how things were going in my life until I began to act proactively and in my own best interest. You don't have to please anyone but yourself and take responsibility for yourself and your choices. It may be easy for other people, but being a trained people pleaser by my parents really set me back a lot in my life and achieving peace of mind. Even now, sometimes it's easy to fall back into old habits.:(

Good luck!

PS. this kind of stuff has been a serious issue for me....if it's not for you, good on ya! Keep on truckin'....:bassist:
 
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Stumbo - Those are interesting points about abuse. I put up with an abusive ex-wife (the 2nd one) for years who STILL tries to bully me, using the guise of protecting our kids everytime she runs out of money because she can't manage it. I pay all of my obligations on time and actually pay more than I would be mandated under formulas, often giving her support money ahead of schedule because she has "unexpected expenses" to be a nice guy... I just ended a 6 1/2 year relationship in November with a GF that was also abusive in different ways.

One of the things that I've been doing for myself is shedding things that are negavite in my life. I can safely say the combination of recently getting tough with the X, ending the relationship, and starting out on a new business venture with a smart, agressive partner who also encourages me to not take s*** in my personal life, has enormously improved my attitude. I wanted to give this band a honest whirl one more time and I did. Now I'm going to assertively look for a better playing situation and carefully examine opportunities for red flags before jumping in.

Its been noticed on my day job, where my more positive and happy attitude has been remarked on by others in my office. Life is too short to be miserable... anything in my life that's optional that I'm participating in, if it goes negative, I dump it, or if I can't dump it, I stand up now to get people to back off. You don't have to be nasty about it - just factual and firm.

P.S. Ha, it was not my music teacher that gave me this gig - one of my other musical friends, who quite frankly had gotten trapped being a nice guy and wanted out. I think I've more than been helpful to this group. If they want to find a good bass player and keep them, they're going to have to get professional, and that's the BL's job - not mine.

I've actually had a couple of musicians/friends I respect hear the band at gigs and both encouraged me to quit back at the beginning of the year. Should've listened then in the sense of sticking with the decision when I quit.

I will check out that book you suggested BTW - it may help me dealing with the X, who is a passive aggressive bully.
 
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