IME, cab specs should be taken with a very large grain of salt for many manufacturers. I don't include Greenboy or Mesa in that category.
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Do all cabs feel like a compromise?
- Thread starter MultiScaleMale
- Start date
Welcome to reality. It's a good idea to strive for perfection, but fine to accept something very close.
I simply adore my Mesa Subway 1x15.
Here is what Weird Al has to say about it:
I simply adore my Mesa Subway 1x15.
Here is what Weird Al has to say about it:
Looks like the Subway 115 or 210 might do the job. I didn’t like the 112 tones on YouTube. Then I’ll just need to decide 2x210, 2x115 or 210+115.
I just Honda Fit and it can legit carry an Ampeg 810. Of course, it didn’t come with a roadie, so that’s not even a consideration. I think the two cab approach is best. And the new car is spurring this decision to change cabs. Just looking at all of the engineering nuances in my Walkabout shows that Mesa really cares.
I just Honda Fit and it can legit carry an Ampeg 810. Of course, it didn’t come with a roadie, so that’s not even a consideration. I think the two cab approach is best. And the new car is spurring this decision to change cabs. Just looking at all of the engineering nuances in my Walkabout shows that Mesa really cares.
My first thought when reading your thread title was: "THEY DON'T! I LOVE MY FEARLESS, AND IT'S PERFECT"!
Then, of course, I came back to reality. Yeah, I think you're right. While there are obvious compromises made with any piece of gear, I do agree with you that by their nature there is more compromise involved with cabs, relatively speaking.
Even taking cost out of the picture, balancing the remaining attributes of weight/size, volume, and tone... it's just harder to cheat things, IMO when it comes to cabs. Just my 2c.
Then, of course, I came back to reality. Yeah, I think you're right. While there are obvious compromises made with any piece of gear, I do agree with you that by their nature there is more compromise involved with cabs, relatively speaking.
Even taking cost out of the picture, balancing the remaining attributes of weight/size, volume, and tone... it's just harder to cheat things, IMO when it comes to cabs. Just my 2c.
Trade-offs everywhere, and then there is that pesky budget factor. 
This. That won't be cheap. But getting everything on your list was never going to be cheap.
LDS and Schroeder build some pretty unique cabs and seem to have ordering options galore. The Greenboys are awesome I’m sure as well. I dig the wedge idea except that I’ve never really understood how guys that run them (as a wedge) keep their class D head in a good spot. Small detail but I’m curious
I've run mine in wedge mode with the front feet of the amp hanging over the lip of the cab. Not uber secure, but fine at modest volumes, (low vibrations). I've also put it on the floor along side the cab. Wedge mode is very helpful in small rooms like rehearsal spaces. I hear myself well, and everyone else gets enough bass to hear what I am doing without lots of woofiness.
Q: Do all cabs feel like a compromise?
A: No.
Q: Are all cabs compomises by design?
A: Absolutely.
You can’t escape the laws of physics
A: No.
Q: Are all cabs compomises by design?
A: Absolutely.
You can’t escape the laws of physics
You nailed it on all three points. The Subway cabs are not short on low end AT ALL. Like you said, Mesa posts realistic specs.
The drivers are essentially off the shelf drivers that you can order from any speaker vendor, but they are covered for a full 5 years from Mesa.
As far as Markbass goes.....well how do I say this nicely....they are designed to cut corners from the start. Rat fur, overseas production, low quality drivers, plastic corners.
I have both the 112 and two of the 115's, I have not personally heard the 210. I much prefer the 115 over the 112, as it's deeper and clearer sounding. The 112 has more of an upper midrange spike and it's fatter in the lower mids. I've read that the 210 is a bigger sounding version of the 112, so I have no desire to replace either of my 115's. If you're looking for rich, deep, clear, and articulate you'll like the 115. If you like the bottom a little rounder, low mids a little thicker, and high mids a little sharp, you will like the 112. There is a pretty large difference in their voicing, you will never mistake one for the other. But they do work splendid together. I still prefer two 115's though
Bergantino is the best I've played / owned
Engineer IS compromise. As AgedHorse said, even if money is no object, something else is. From a pure "bass cabinet" point of view, weight is actually a compromise. If it were not, you'd be ok with a 600lb cabinet. Covering is also a secondary characteristic (ie, rat fur or color changing tolex don't make it sound any better.) Figure out what it is you want, then go from there. Money is of course, typically one of the constrained parameters for most folks.
So what DO you want?
So what DO you want?
As far as affordable mass produced stuff yeah I’d say there’s pretty much always some compromise.
Different people are going to like different cab finishes as far as tolex, rat fur metal grills vs cloth grills and so on. I’ve been a big fan of the look of ampeg cabs for a while. But I’m getting tired of patching the Tolex and being paranoid about the cloth grill getting damaged and I have no interest in dealing with heavy roadcases anymore. I’ve had some metal grill rat fur cabs from SWR and Peavey and am debating getting some of the newer Warwick cabs which are rat fur and metal grill.
As far as cab design/tuning. I think compromise can be a good thing. Some types of cabs are just better for different situations. Playing without PA support I like ported cabs. Playing with a powerful PA system i prefer sealed cabs. That’s not really about how the cabs sound themselves but more so how they interact with the low end bleed from the PA. It seems the only way to not have to compromise on this is to use a full range flat response cab along with a speaker simulator like the omnicabsim, though I haven’t tried that type of setup yet personally.
I think the big compromise is in the parts used. Cab builders are trying to make a profit and to make a profit and to not price themselves out of the majority of the market they cut corners. Where with basses “custom” mainly refers to top notch stuff, with cabs if you see “custom” speakers it’s not always, but usually “custom” made specifically to cut cost. In fact from my experience with eminence speakers the “replacement speakers they make are often better than the “custom made” ones they make for cab builders. A lot of boutique cab builders like greenboy Audio are very open about exactly what speakers are going in their cabs, but when it comes to the mass produced stuff it’s “custom eminence drivers” or “custom Celestion.” It is what it is. Would you buy ampeg, Peavey, Etc if the cabs cost twice as much or more? It’s just a business thing. A lot of bass players run direct and mainly view bass cabs and “stage monitors”. I haven’t had a microphone on a bass cab at a show in years personally but I do occasionally play small gigs where there’s no bass in the PA so I do care what my cabs sound like.
From what’s out there, I’d probably want Subway 115 or 210 with bed liner covering and stackable corners. Another option would be a Greenboy F112 in a non wedge format. I have not seen a Barefaced anywhere, but two of their smaller cabs in some tougher covering would be appealing. The downside would be it’s proprietary driver should anything happen. Dr Bass for all his faults makes a nice cab that can check most of the boxes.
After reading this I thought about the old SUNN Cabs. In my opinion the Coliseum cab I believe had two 15"s, cost a large amount of money, weighed a ton, was durable sounded excellent, but people wanted the same quality for half the price and weight.
You may ultimately find a cabinet that is perfect for you, only to have your needs change down the road.
In high school, I had a basement full of used cabs as I also am a guitarist, but my standout bass cab was an Acoustic 406 2x15" I bought for only $125. Seeing how I had access to my parents' truck, moving it around was no problem.
I left home to go to college in a city, so I left most of my gear at my parents' house (and later on sold most of it). I only had a 50 watt Crate 1x12 practice amp for a little while, but I wasn't gigging on bass (I went to school for guitar). I started to jam around with people and bought a Carvin BRX800 2x12" combo on wheels that was manageable to walk around with on occasion. Later on, I sold the Carvin and had no bass amp as, once again, I wasn't gigging on bass (just guitar). I bought a Tone Hammer DI to use with my QSC K10 so I could have a good sound for recording and practicing.
After college, I joined a Motown/R&B band initially on guitar, but when they found out I also was a bassist, I started being asked to sub in on that instead more or less every other gig since bassists are harder to find. The band has its own PA gear so I used their QSC K12 on top of a QSC KSub with my Tone Hammer DI as it basically was a giant version of my home setup (2000 watts of full range fun).
Later on, we started to hire out sound more as it was a literal pain in the neck to do our own FOH sound. I had to buy an amp again, and I wasn't in the city anymore but did have to contend with stairs at my apartment. I bought, and still use, a Fender Rumble 500 head and two 2x10 cabs as they are light, loud, and sound great. We now live in a different apartment with an elevator and have an SUV, so I bought an Orange 1x15" cab as my additional "compact" single cab option and a used Ampeg 8x10" (it was on my bucket list
) to supplement my Rumble cabs to have flexibility depending on the venue and load-in.
Moral of the story: No cabinet is perfect or is capable of doing everything. This is why I own several. The modern compact cabs, such as the Mesa Subways mentioned here, are starting to blur the lines as they get more and more capable, but physics are physics and sometimes a big heavy cabinet (or multiple smaller ones) just works in some situations. Other situations may mandate a cabinet that's easier to transport but will need an adequate PA to reach the audience or an amp stand to reach your ears.
Simple things like cabinet hardware, input jacks, caster wheels, etc. can all be upgraded if any shortcomings are apparent (for example, the cabinet is perfect for your needs but doesn't have Speakon, you can always convert it easily or get a Speakon - 1/4" cable). I try to avoid speaker swaps since cabinets are tuned for what came from the factory, but with a little research, that can be done to drastically alter its voice or weight.
In high school, I had a basement full of used cabs as I also am a guitarist, but my standout bass cab was an Acoustic 406 2x15" I bought for only $125. Seeing how I had access to my parents' truck, moving it around was no problem.
I left home to go to college in a city, so I left most of my gear at my parents' house (and later on sold most of it). I only had a 50 watt Crate 1x12 practice amp for a little while, but I wasn't gigging on bass (I went to school for guitar). I started to jam around with people and bought a Carvin BRX800 2x12" combo on wheels that was manageable to walk around with on occasion. Later on, I sold the Carvin and had no bass amp as, once again, I wasn't gigging on bass (just guitar). I bought a Tone Hammer DI to use with my QSC K10 so I could have a good sound for recording and practicing.
After college, I joined a Motown/R&B band initially on guitar, but when they found out I also was a bassist, I started being asked to sub in on that instead more or less every other gig since bassists are harder to find. The band has its own PA gear so I used their QSC K12 on top of a QSC KSub with my Tone Hammer DI as it basically was a giant version of my home setup (2000 watts of full range fun).
Later on, we started to hire out sound more as it was a literal pain in the neck to do our own FOH sound. I had to buy an amp again, and I wasn't in the city anymore but did have to contend with stairs at my apartment. I bought, and still use, a Fender Rumble 500 head and two 2x10 cabs as they are light, loud, and sound great. We now live in a different apartment with an elevator and have an SUV, so I bought an Orange 1x15" cab as my additional "compact" single cab option and a used Ampeg 8x10" (it was on my bucket list
) to supplement my Rumble cabs to have flexibility depending on the venue and load-in.Moral of the story: No cabinet is perfect or is capable of doing everything. This is why I own several. The modern compact cabs, such as the Mesa Subways mentioned here, are starting to blur the lines as they get more and more capable, but physics are physics and sometimes a big heavy cabinet (or multiple smaller ones) just works in some situations. Other situations may mandate a cabinet that's easier to transport but will need an adequate PA to reach the audience or an amp stand to reach your ears.
Simple things like cabinet hardware, input jacks, caster wheels, etc. can all be upgraded if any shortcomings are apparent (for example, the cabinet is perfect for your needs but doesn't have Speakon, you can always convert it easily or get a Speakon - 1/4" cable). I try to avoid speaker swaps since cabinets are tuned for what came from the factory, but with a little research, that can be done to drastically alter its voice or weight.
