Do all tapewound strings cause hum?

[Old Garage-Bander]

Argh...

Explain why the noise reduction by touching the strings still works when you have rubber boots on. It has nothing to do with anything flowing into the ground through the user's feet. You simply become a partial shield, that's all.

This thread is wild. Shielding is simple. Just have a shield (a grounded conductor) around exposed hot wires. That's all.

"Argh" is exactly the correct response to this for most folks. You are in the Super-Duper Majority my friend.

I've been going down this rabbit hole (with mixed success) for nearly 50 years. It'll take another 50 to climb out. Unfortunately, the universe ain't gonna let me have that much time.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

Sorry, that is incorrect. If the noise goes away when you touch the bridge or other grounded part of the bass then that just confirms that those parts are grounded properly. All of my basses are shielded and all the shielding is grounded as confirmed by multimeter continuity testing. If I get too close to the computer, a phone or other electronic device it will induce some RF noise. I touch any part of the bass that is grounded (which can be the strings on all but my fretless with tapes) and the noise reduces or ceases.

Ok, glad it works for you. I'm interested on your theory of why it goes away when you touch the bridge. Maybe we're using the term "ground" differently.

 

[75Ric]

I've used both Rotosound and LaBella tape wounds on my passive p bass and never had hum. The bass is shielded.

 

[PyschRockLover]

Update:

So THIS thread has gotten interesting lol..
I checked the electronic cavity and there is a little bit of shielding where the potentiometers meet the pickguard, some kind of silver tape or foil.. not sure what it is tbh. The rest of the cavity is void of any shielding.

 

[Tim Skaggs]

While standing in mud puddle is not recommended for a number of reasons, I wouldn't expect it to make much difference for reducing noise, and may actually increase it

The mud puddle remark was the attempted humor half of the sentence; the first half of the sentence was the point I was trying to get across. Apparently a swing and a miss on my part.

Also, the use of the word “shunt” by Mr. Sadowsky was clearly understood and was the terminology I was using with @Turnaround to indicate that I didn’t think Mr. Sadowsky was calling the person touching the strings a ground source. Strike two on my attempt at explaining. I do better talking than using text….(or at least I think I do).

 

[Tim Skaggs]

Argh...

Explain why the noise reduction by touching the strings still works when you have rubber boots on

That would be due to capacitance. Any RF or electrical interference inducing noise in any of the bass electrical components will be AC, not DC.

It has nothing to do with anything flowing into the ground through the user's feet. You simply become a partial shield, that's all.

Seems you also read the joke half of the sentence and missed the first half. The first half said; “I agree the human is not adding a directly connected ground to the already grounded bass hardware”

This thread is wild. Shielding is simple. Just have a shield (a grounded conductor) around exposed hot wires. That's all.

Shielding is simple; just surround all electrical components of the bass with a metal film/screen of some kind and ground it. Voila; a Faraday cage, except for the holes where the pickup(s) are located. Unless you are also putting the shielding around the pickups, including the side facing the strings, the Faraday cage has a door or two left open. That’s probably why Mr. Sadowsky considers shielding a 90% solution, and probably why he said anyone who hasn’t experienced some noise when not touching the grounded parts on a bass just hasn’t been in a ratty AC / RF environment that causes such noise.

 

[Old Garage-Bander]

The mud puddle remark was the attempted humor half of the sentence; the first half of the sentence was the point I was trying to get across. Apparently a swing and a miss on my part.

Also, the use of the word “shunt” by Mr. Sadowsky was clearly understood and was the terminology I was using with @Turnaround to indicate that I didn’t think Mr. Sadowsky was calling the person touching the strings a ground source. Strike two on my attempt at explaining. I do better talking than using text….(or at least I think I do).

Ah. OK. Well a couple of strikes on my account then also.
Sorry about nerding-up your grove.

 

[BAG]

Ok, glad it works for you. I'm interested on your theory of why it goes away when you touch the bridge. Maybe we're using the term "ground" differently.

I'm happy to be corrected but as others that have MUCH more electronics knowledge than me have stated, our body acts as an antenna and touching a grounded part of the bass let's the rf noise bleed to ground.

And, no I don't really understand it. What I do know from reading and experience is that when noise reduces when you touch a grounded part of a bass or guitar you have a shielding issue.... if it increases you have a grounding issue in the circuit.

 

[PyschRockLover]

So, what's the consensus?

Switch to round wound or shield my bass?

 

[uOpt]

So, what's the consensus?

Switch to round wound or shield my bass?

Shielding is pretty easy, at least if your pickup wire is already a shielded wire. Just watch the output plug, you want to shield around it, too.

 

[/\/\3phist0]

So, what's the consensus?

Switch to round wound or shield my bass?

Either way, shielding is a good/necessary thing that will reap benefits whatever strings you choose.

 

[BAG]

So, what's the consensus?

Switch to round wound or shield my bass?

If you do your shielding properly you'll only improve things. Like my fretless Jazz with Bill Lawrence J46 pickups, you may find that you still have some noise when using tapewounds, but it should minimise it.

Even if your bass has shielding paint, unless it is applied really well you'll probably hear an improvement when using copper tape. Just make sure all cavities that you shield are connected to the common ground.

 

[Bill Thorsberg]

No. I have D’Addario tape wounds on a shielded, passive p bass with a Golden Age pickup. No hum, no extraneous noise whatsoever. I love the sound of those.

If the noise goes away when you touch the bridge, your shielding isn’t grounded properly, either in the instrument or the path along the cable / amp / outlet. You’re showing that the shielding works by essentially giving it a ground when you touch the bridge.

Just finished shielding this old Peavey Milestone II P-bass. It wasn't humming with the tapes on it but it did have lots of RF under a variety of conditions and locations. This shielding seems to help A LOT with the noise issue - sounds nice n quiet now, even with the tapes on it. I got the sheilding tape from "Temu" - it was cheap and effective!

 

[jd56hawk]

Why don't my basses hum?
I have nothing but tapewounds, GHS on three regular basses, D'Addario on two Dean Exotica acoustic basses.
(Not counting half a dozen or more basses I've sold.)

 

[andare]

If your bass doesn't hum, it means the strings are grounded. The ball ends probably touch the bridge.

But if your fingers can't make contact with a grounded component, you will not be grounded and there will be a buzz.

 

[maturanesa]

If your bass hums but goes away when you touch the strings the problem is the circuit. The bridge should have the copper from a cable between the wood and the metal or the copper ribbon that some old basses had.

 

[/\/\3phist0]

If your bass hums but goes away when you touch the strings the problem is the circuit. The bridge should have the copper from a cable between the wood and the metal or the copper ribbon that some old basses had.

But YOU are part of the circuit.
If the bridge is contacting the ball ends the BASS’S circuit is complete.
With Tapewound strings, the nylon wrap insulates YOU from the circuit, therefore: the path to ground to shunt RF interference to ground is incomplete.
Science.

 

[maturanesa]

But YOU are part of the circuit.
If the bridge is contacting the ball ends the BASS’S circuit is complete.
With Tapewound strings, the nylon wrap insulates YOU from the circuit, therefore: the path to ground to shunt RF interference to ground is incomplete.
Science.

I can take my hands out of the strings and it doesnt hum. So if i put tapewounds they will not hum either. Because my bass is grounded with a cable that touches the bridge

 

[andare]

I can take my hands out of the strings and it doesnt hum. So if i put tapewounds they will not hum either. Because my bass is grounded with a cable that touches the bridge

If a guitar never hums or buzzes, regardless of whether you touch it, it means it's correctly grounded and shielded. It also means the pickups are hum cancelling since neither grounding nor shielding can eliminate single coil hum.

If it makes noise when you don't touch it and it is silent when you touch it, it means it's correctly grounded but not shielded - you are the source of the noise, which is picked up by the electronics and sent to the amp instead of to ground, which is the function of the shielding. When you touch the strings, which are grounded through the bridge, your noise is sent to ground so you don't hear it. This works with all metal strings.
However, since tapewound strings are not coated in metal, when you play them they cannot ground the noise you make, so even if the guitar is shielded you will hear a buzz. The only solution here is to ground yourself another way by connecting yourself to a grounded metal part (a pickup cover grounded through the pickguard, the bridge via a short wire, etc).

Additionally, If it makes noise even when you touch it, it might also mean that something in the guitar is not grounded, typically the strings or the bridge. This is the case with tapewound strings if they don't come into contact with the grounded bridge.

With tapewound strings all 3 of the above scenarios may happen.

 

[maturanesa]

If a guitar never hums or buzzes, regardless of whether you touch it, it means it's correctly grounded and shielded. It also means the pickups are hum cancelling since neither grounding nor shielding can eliminate single coil hum.

If it makes noise when you don't touch it and it is silent when you touch it, it means it's correctly grounded but not shielded - you are the source of the noise, which is picked up by the electronics and sent to the amp instead of to ground, which is the function of the shielding. When you touch the strings, which are grounded through the bridge, your noise is sent to ground so you don't hear it. This works with all metal strings.
However, since tapewound strings are not coated in metal, when you play them they cannot ground the noise you make, so even if the guitar is shielded you will hear a buzz. The only solution here is to ground yourself another way by connecting yourself to a grounded metal part (a pickup cover grounded through the pickguard, the bridge via a short wire, etc).

Additionally, If it makes noise even when you touch it, it might also mean that something in the guitar is not grounded, typically the strings or the bridge. This is the case with tapewound strings if they don't come into contact with the grounded bridge.

With tapewound strings all 3 of the above scenarios may happen.

One thing is the hum that single coil produce, it is present always even when you touch the strings. Other is the hum that goes away by touching the string. That is eliminated by a ground cable touchin the bridge or a copper strip. None of my basses are shielded and they dont produce any noise because there is a cable touching the bridge. They hum in single coil mode but is the hum that is always there even when you are playing, thats how single coils work