Do Americans need more expensive basses?

[topo morto]

Why so concerned with how others (Americans) spend their money?

I'm a bass player and have a vague interest in the mechanics of the bass market, really, which includes what people's aspirations and perceptions are...

Not as interesting as, say, pangolins. But it's a thread...

Huh? You tell us...you're the one living there. What?

My impression is that we are definitely more squeezed financially, but that there are still a bunch of people here who could spring for (the equivalent of) a $1500* instrument if they felt it necessary - but it seems that for the most part they don't feel that. Living here doesn't really give me an insight into that difference in attitude.

*I'm sure I see this kind of figure quoted around here as an idea of what you need to spend to get something decent.

 

[GBassNorth]

Play what you like and like what you play.

I have many expensive basses and many cheap basses, some are from the US and some are from other countries. The one thing they all have in common is I like them, otherwise I wouldn't still have them.

I do find it puzzling when people challenge buying habits and lifestyles of others. If someone can get a Squier bass made in Asia to sound as good as a Fender bass made in the USA I'm happy for them. Likewise, if someone can afford an Alembic bass and play it well I'm just as happy for them.

As for buying US basses above all others, I suspect I varies by brand and is driven more by perceived quality than anything else. I know very few people that only buy US products. I know a lot of people that will pay more for a US product if they feel it has higher quality.

I'd pay more for a Spector made in the Woodstock USA facility than I would for a Spector Legend made in Asia. I'd pay more for a Warwick made in Germany than Warwick Rock Bass made in Asia. But I've been known to pass on buying a MIA Fender when I can get one from China or Japan that looks, plays and sounds just as good at a fraction of the price.

 

[davidhilton]

You are correct. "Made in America" always meant more in the US than internationally. Many American products are looked at as being inferior, such as cars and beef.

Personally, I don't think a MIA Fender is worth double the price of a MIM or even a MIC. But the fact that it's "Made in America" is important mainly to Americans.

Maybe the "made in America" factor isn't the most important anymore...now days, instruments that are not "big factory" produced seems where the quality lies...
Think Fbass, AV, Xotic, etc...

 

[davidhilton]

I have a $2000 Stambaugh and a $150 Squire Jaguar. The Stammie is without a doubt better in every way (except one). I could mod the Jag with the same pickups (nordy NJ4s) and same strings (TI J44s) and I bet the sound would be 80-90% similar enough that most musicians would not know the difference... nevermind your average Joe listening to my band in a pub.

Most of us would agree that tone is one of the, if not *the* most important aspect of a bass. So there is that. Is that 10 - 20% tone worth $1800? Not to me.

Where the real difference lies is in fit and finish. The Stambaugh is a handmade bass that plays very nicely. I have yet to come across a bass that matches it and frankly I don't have any interest in other basses as the Stammie killed all bass GAS for me.

That said, though I would not want to, it would not be extremely difficult to me to let go of the Stammie and just use the Jag as my one and only. The reason I don't is because #1. I **really** like the Stammie and at this point have no reason to part with it. #2. If I did ever need money in a most desperate fashion I could sell the Stammie and confidently flip it for $1000 perhaps more. This makes it almost like a safety net or emergency fund for me.

The only way the Jag is better, the 'except one' is its replacement factor. I could ride a motorcycle with it on my back or play in adverse weather or play it in a really scuzzy bar and I would not be heartbroken if it were damaged or stolen.

So ultimately playing the $2000 Stambaugh is just an unnecessary, decadent luxury when the Jag will get the job done without issue. I bet if I ever had to make the switch between the two I would not ultimately miss the Stammie that much as I acclimatized to the Jag. Kind of like going from a big screen tv to a smaller one. You get used to it after awhile.

Lets get real man...even if u "modded" ur Squire with the best PUP's, bridge, nut, tuners, etc...its never gonna sound anywhere near what ur Stambaugh sounds like...
www.basslessonslosangeles.com

 

[GretschBassist]

Lets get real man...even if u "modded" ur Squire with the best PUP's, bridge, nut, tuners, etc...its never gonna sound anywhere near what ur Stambaugh sounds like.

Have you heard it through his ears now?

 

[el murdoque]

If the bass is made in a first world country, chances are high that labour is the most expensive thing on the whole instrument. So chances are also high that the parts chosen for that instrument are of a high quality. When labour is cheap, the maker might consider swapping some nuts and bolts for cheaper ones that are not top notch but still good enough and the consumer is likely to find little or no difference.

If you pay $2k for a handmade instrument where a few hundred bucks were spent in material and it took two weeks' time of a skilled luthier to make it (that's half a month) and you consider that he has to pay rent for his workshop, heating and electricity, it does not seem to be that much.

If you can have the same tone and playabiltiy from an instrument from the far east for less than half of it, you may choose where to put your money.

On my last purchase i valued the fact that my bass was made mostly with homegrown woods and the tropical woods were purchased from sources that allowed for fair trade and paid attention to regrow what was taken.

 

[topo morto]

Lets get real man...even if u "modded" ur Squire with the best PUP's, bridge, nut, tuners, etc...its never gonna sound anywhere near what ur Stambaugh sounds like...

I've not personally played enough high-end basses to take a strong view, but it seems that sort of view is pretty common round here, but not so much over on Basschat in the UK. That's what I was driving at in the OP.

 

[AaronVonRock]

I've not personally played enough high-end basses to take a strong view, but it seems that sort of view is pretty common round here, but not so much over on Basschat in the UK. That's what I was driving at in the OP.

As an American, I prefer the higher end of cheap basses and pedals. I won't spend much more than $500 for a bass and would prefer to get a used pedal for under $50. Playing live in a dive bar, most people aren't going to hear the difference between my $500 bass and a $2000 one. Same goes for a $45 pedal vs a $200 one.

 

[chris_b]

The question of price is usually raised by people who think they are cool because they play cheaper instruments.

People who play more expensive basses almost never seem to question why those who buy cheaper gear do so.

It doesn't seem like it's a discussion that can go anywhere.

 

[smcgov]

notice nobody is calling it "Great Britain" any more?

I would estimate at the most possibly a small handfull of people or possibly zero people can hear the difference at a gig between a Fodera and a G&L. It's nice to play a beautifully crafted instrument but guys who play an Ibanez get paid the same. I guess it's degrees of diminishing returns.

 

[Dave W]

Playing live in a dive bar, most people aren't going to hear the difference between my $500 bass and a $2000 one. Same goes for a $45 pedal vs a $200 one.

I never understood this logic. You're right, as long as it sounds good the audience doesn't care, but I care.

 

[SteveHeissner]

Americans don't NEED expensive anything. The spoiled bastards just think they do. I should know. I'm one of those spoiled bastards.

 

[frankieC]

Also Americans don't have to pay to go on holiday, because they're already in America.

Wait... We live in Georgia. We spent 3 weeks in New Mexico (about a 2 day drive, or a 3 hour flight from Georgia) 4 years ago, and it cost me nearly $10K!

I believe your perception of Americans vacationing in America might be slightly flawed. lol

Regarding "Made in America", I think those who say it means more to Americans are correct. I know it means more to me, and I always look for "Made in USA" or "Made in America" when shopping for anything.

Regarding basses, I own mostly American made basses from Rickenbacker, Fender, Gibson, and Carvin. I also own a Made in "West Germany" Hofner, A made in "Sweden" Hagstrum, I do own a couple of MIM's, another made in China, another in Indonesia, and even one made in Spain, from 1955.

I like them all, (or I wouldn't own them). Depending in the place I'm playing, I use different bases. If the place has a reputation for having "lively" crowds, I usually go with one of the imports.

I think many Americans do put a little more weight behind "Made in America" than other people do, but that doesn't mean that there aren't other locations of excellent reputation.

I also think that American's tend to automatically and sometimes unfairly, devalue things from Asia, but, It seems we do value basses from Europe, though.

Price, quality brand name, and point of manufacture all seem to matter as much or more to us than sound, feel, and build quality.

For example, I've got a wonderful, MIM Fender P/J. It's a passive bass, P body, J neck, maple fret board. It sounds great. When I first started using it in public, some of the local "bass snobs" asked the eternal question, "Is that MIA"?
My usual response back hen was, "You had to ask"? TO which they normally responded with something like: I knew it was, it sounds great.

When I tell them it's a MIM, they start with the what did you do to it? questions... The answer is "Nothing. It's a stock Fender MIM P/J that I purchased as a work horse.
Some have even said I was BS'ing, MIM's don't sound that good. Well, they can, and many do. In spite of what many have led themselves to believe.

 

[petrus61]

Wait... We live in Georgia. We spent 3 weeks in New Mexico (about a 2 day drive, or a 3 hour flight from Georgia) 4 years ago, and it cost me nearly $10K!

I believe your perception of Americans vacationing in America might be slightly flawed. lol

Regarding "Made in America", I think those who say it means more to Americans are correct. I know it means more to me, and I always look for "Made in USA" or "Made in America" when shopping for anything.

Regarding basses, I own mostly American made basses from Rickenbacker, Fender, Gibson, and Carvin. I also own a Made in "West Germany" Hofner, A made in "Sweden" Hagstrum, I do own a couple of MIM's, another made in China, another in Indonesia, and even one made in Spain, from 1955.

I like them all, (or I wouldn't own them). Depending in the place I'm playing, I use different bases. If the place has a reputation for having "lively" crowds, I usually go with one of the imports.

I think many Americans do put a little more weight behind "Made in America" than other people do, but that doesn't mean that there aren't other locations of excellent reputation.

I also think that American's tend to automatically and sometimes unfairly, devalue things from Asia, but, It seems we do value basses from Europe, though.

Price, quality brand name, and point of manufacture all seem to matter as much or more to us than sound, feel, and build quality.

For example, I've got a wonderful, MIM Fender P/J. It's a passive bass, P body, J neck, maple fret board. It sounds great. When I first started using it in public, some of the local "bass snobs" asked the eternal question, "Is that MIA"?
My usual response back hen was, "You had to ask"? TO which they normally responded with something like: I knew it was, it sounds great.

When I tell them it's a MIM, they start with the what did you do to it? questions... The answer is "Nothing. It's a stock Fender MIM P/J that I purchased as a work horse.
Some have even said I was BS'ing, MIM's don't sound that good. Well, they can, and many do. In spite of what many have led themselves to believe.

I was listening to a report on the radio about the rise of homegrown fashion designers in China (why, I have no idea) and the perception many Chinese have is that many of their domestically produced products are inferior to ours and there's a huge market for MIA luxury items over there.

 

[smcgov]

I'll put it this way, I was in a thrift and was blown away to find a Eureka vacuum, the kind that rolls as you push it, it was made of wood, in mint condition, still worked and was made in Michigan in 1913....I also find metal shovels (albeit rusty) with wooden handles that still function.

Please tell me how much Chinese junk you're going to buy at Wal Mart that will be around in 100 years. I can't get a plastic shovel to last one season, when I was growing up near chicago, we had 2 metal shovels my entire lifetime.

 

[GretschBassist]

I can't get a plastic shovel to last one season, when I was growing up near chicago, we had 2 metal shovels my entire lifetime.

I've always wondered how global markets are being analyzed without leaving anything out of the equation. Well done.

 

[frankieC]

I was listening to a report on the radio about the rise of homegrown fashion designers in China (why, I have no idea) and the perception many Chinese have is that many of their domestically produced products are inferior to ours and there's a huge market for MIA luxury items over there.

Great! That would be a boom to our economy. Problem is getting the Chinese government to increase it's American imports, especially if the market is good. I don't see that happening any time soon though. Exporting is China's mainstay, right now, and they desperately want to be a world leader in manufacturing.
that alone would tend to make American goods worth ever more there, though. lol

 

[frankieC]

Please tell me how much Chinese junk you're going to buy at Wal Mart that will be around in 100 years. I can't get a plastic shovel to last one season, when I was growing up near chicago, we had 2 metal shovels my entire lifetime.

It won't last. That's the design... Keep buying replacements.
Remember, we live in a recycle or discard world. Longevity isn't part of that mindset.

 

[El Raro]

More expensive instruments are kind of associated with skill, professionalism and experience. Conversely, cheaper instruments are usually associated with the opposite traits - amateurism, lack of professionalism etc. I found, at least around here, bands are looked at with higher esteem if they carry more expensive or elaborate gear than the band before them who plays on Squiers and "entry level" equipment. I find it more notable in younger bands whose members fall anywhere between 16 and 30.

I think the perception of professionalism is the biggest factor in this mentality. No one will take you seriously if you play a sub-par instrument but unfortunately quality is measured purely by the name on the headstock. I've seen countless people absolutely demolish sets on $500 guitars while people with $2000+ guitars left me wishing their 6 song sets were cut by 5 and a half songs. Ironically, the band with the more expensive gear but lack of..well, anything really, ended up being the band who got the most praise.

 

[Marial]

Wait... We live in Georgia. We spent 3 weeks in New Mexico (about a 2 day drive, or a 3 hour flight from Georgia) 4 years ago, and it cost me nearly $10K!

Do you have a big family or was this a particularly extravagant vacation? $10,000? In Mexico?

No judgement on my part, get down with your bad self, but spending $10k on a vacation in Mexico is kind of extraordinary.