Do I need an Ampeg SVT all tube head???

[brianrost]

Turlu,

By now you have probably figured out that many of us would be perfectly happy using SVTs if somehow the head would weigh only 20-30 pounds. Transport of an SVT is the #1 downside. Maybe the only downside, really.

Price is not a downside because there are solid state amps that cost as much as or more than an SVT, like the Walter Woods amp I use.

Replacing tubes is not a downside. While today's tubes may not be as good quality as tubes were at their peak (60s-70s), they are not as fragile as some people think. I own a guitar amp that's over 60 years old. It had the original tubes in it when I got it 40 years ago. After about 20 years, I finally had to replace the 40 year old power tubes. The preamp and rectifier tubes are still the originals. Yes, the power tubes in an SVT are expensive to replace but if you don't abuse the amp (including just moving it around) and you're a weekend warrior you can go years before needing to replace them. If you're going on the road 365/24/7 with a Finnish death metal band they might wear faster but then your roadies will deal with it.

It's easy to think the weight is not really an issue until you have to carry it up (and down) a rickety fire escape or five flights of stairs, load it into the back seat of a two-door car, take it on a city bus or subway, carry it anywhere by yourself for more than 100 feet, etc. If you're good with that, go for it.

Maybe YoungBob will stop in and discuss how he's managed moving one for all these years. He's as old a geezer as I am and he's still using his.

 

[chris_b]

Let me know your thoughts!!

Pick one up and walk it up 2 flights of stairs and then back down again. That'll stop you thinking about an SVT for a lifetime.

 

[Gravedigger Dav]

You need two, at least

 

[Zbysek]

Pick one up and walk it up 2 flights of stairs and then back down again. That'll stop you thinking about an SVT for a lifetime.

Yeah..plus do it at 2 am after a long day…

 

[baxter_x]

You need two, at least

True, it's easier to carry two than one as it balances your two shoulders

 

[coyote1]

For well over two years now, I have been more than happy with my MarkBass Jeff Berlin combo sitting on top of a New York Cab 115. Still, to this day, I think that having an Ampeg SVT all tube ( like a CL, or a VR, an AV model ) or a V4BH would satisfy my hunger for the warmth of the tubes in all their glory.....

I use a Darkglass VMT at the front of my current rig and truly enjoy the nice overdriven tone thus far.

Would I be more satisfied with an Ampeg SVT for instance??? Is it worth to haul such a beast around for that Tone??

I know this is the standard of all bass amps out there, I just don't want to invest in something that I may find too subtle of a difference to truly appreciate it.

Let me know your thoughts!!

Of course you need it! A Markbass is great; a MarkBass AND an Ampeg is better.
If ever anyone needed anything in this world, it's you and that SVT.

 

[LetItGrowTone]

It might be a bucket list thing that you'll have to do or the doubt will torment you for all eternity.

 

[Mantis Tobaggan]

I think an svt av or cl with an 810 has a presence in the room. like the bass is surrounding you as you play it. like the sound becomes a physical thing that is in the room.

 

[Jim C]

For me?
I need an SVT head. I don't particularly like sealed cabinets and have used mine with a GB NeoX 2x12 as well as various 2x15 cabinets. The tone and the way the amp "feels" as well as the tactile response in just different than SS amps. I've also owned a V4B and have a Showman. They have similar mojo but not enough power for me to gig with. The V4B tone is also amazing.
These days I rarely take my SVT out of the house only because of weight but it is my reference amp; The King.
3-D soundstage, super clean (is how I like them adjusted), solid bottom and highs that are rarely harsh or strident (all things being equal).
Bucket list item if you are a serious player and a blue chip stock to buy and resell right now.

 

[LetItGrowTone]

it's easier to carry two than one as it balances your two shoulders

I have a ladder, taller than the 8x10, and I imagined letting the head hang on a straight arm, with my back straight, and just walking it up. Turns out I couldn't handle that asymmetrical load without hurting my back.
So I stood the head on one end, bent my legs all the way, hugged the head to my chest, straightened my legs, put one end of the amp on the cab, then the other.
Since I'm old, and it belongs on that cab, it might never move again.

(Just providing some graphics to the original poster.)

 

[el murdoque]

The short answer is yes.

 

[Skullheadrac]

For well over two years now, I have been more than happy with my MarkBass Jeff Berlin combo sitting on top of a New York Cab 115. Still, to this day, I think that having an Ampeg SVT all tube ( like a CL, or a VR, an AV model ) or a V4BH would satisfy my hunger for the warmth of the tubes in all their glory.....

I use a Darkglass VMT at the front of my current rig and truly enjoy the nice overdriven tone thus far.

Would I be more satisfied with an Ampeg SVT for instance??? Is it worth to haul such a beast around for that Tone??

I know this is the standard of all bass amps out there, I just don't want to invest in something that I may find too subtle of a difference to truly appreciate it.

Let me know your thoughts!!

I went down this rabit hole also. First tube head i pulled the trigger on was a 70's V-4b. That one is still my favorite.
After that, i got the SVT-CL. I thought i would be fine with that, but then i hunted down a SVT-VR.
each are different and i don't see myself selling any of them, anytime soon.

That being said, i think you should totally pull the trigger and get at least 1 right now. Prices are dirt cheap on the used market, compared to what they were precovid. Here in LA, there's an SVT-CL with a road case listed for $900.
I'd say try it out. If you don't like it, you could always sell it later down the road and get your money back from it.

 

[Basslice]

As much as I love Ampeg tube amps, I would probably not get a SVT + 8X10 unless it was staying in a fixed location or someone else was the person to move it from place to place. I also agree with others that say to get a SVT head and not use a 8X10 would probably not be a good move.

 

[baxter_x]

The tone and the way the amp "feels" as well as the tactile response in just different than SS amps.

Could you tell me more about this? I have tried all tube amps but never really played any onstage. How really different is it from a SS amp? I feel all my SS amps were pushing a lot both in tone and tactile response.

 

[bassdude51]

For a big expensive buy like an SVT..............go try one out before you whip out the old charge card. Hearing is reality. Opinions are a "dime a dozen".

 

[Garret Wheeler]

For well over two years now, I have been more than happy with my MarkBass Jeff Berlin combo sitting on top of a New York Cab 115. Still, to this day, I think that having an Ampeg SVT all tube ( like a CL, or a VR, an AV model ) or a V4BH would satisfy my hunger for the warmth of the tubes in all their glory.....

I use a Darkglass VMT at the front of my current rig and truly enjoy the nice overdriven tone thus far.

Would I be more satisfied with an Ampeg SVT for instance??? Is it worth to haul such a beast around for that Tone??

I know this is the standard of all bass amps out there, I just don't want to invest in something that I may find too subtle of a difference to truly appreciate it.

Let me know your thoughts!!

I never understood why everyone loved SVTs until I got to play through one. The 810 is almost always going to be overkill, but if volume isn't an issue go for it.

I use an Aguilar Tone Hammer 500 and a Sansamp Bass VT. It gets 90% of the sound, but the difference is in the way it feels. The amp responds differently depending on how hard you hit the strings. Someone could probably give you a technical description, but it's like when you really dig in it compresses the signal or gets louder depending on how you have it set.

 

[Kukulkan61]

If you have Roadies get one!

 

[Jim C]

Could you tell me more about this? I have tried all tube amps but never really played any onstage. How really different is it from a SS amp? I feel all my SS amps were pushing a lot both in tone and tactile response.

Hey Baxter,
I haven't used an SVT on stage in years but I remember the experience to be similar to playing at home.
Not super loud especially with an inefficient cabinet as I go clean and it's only 300 watts. OTOH, I don't really feel the need for more power with an SM400 and the GB 2x12 live. Kills with my Berg. HT322 and at 185 lbs. combined weight it better,

So, remembering the 300 watt limit and high quality efficient cabinet:
* It has the slam of a heavyweight amp
* The tone is nicer than anything else I've tried to include GB Shuttle 9.2, MB, GK MBF800, TH500 as well as many of the 70's amps like Acoustic 370's.
* Can get close to a channel strip with compression when asked
* Really thick punchy sound and the EQ points as well as their interaction just flat out sounds the best to me
* Never small or boxy sounding

When gigging returns, I'm going to take it out a few times and see how much trouble vs. performance I can hear onstage.

You of all people should get one to try with your SWR cabinets! The downside is these amps (AFAIK) will only go as high as 4 Ohms, so no single 8 Ohm cabinets.

 

[Kukulkan61]

Yes.

View attachment 4135320

Now that is Classic

 

[packhowitzer]

The first thing to figure out is what makes you hunger for tubes? If it's reading a bunch of hyperbole and hyped up nonsense about tubey goodness, then you may be heading down the wrong rabbit hole.

There are a range of different qualities that tube amps posses. In order to decide which amp will best suit your needs, you need to identify the range of tubey qualities and figure out what they do for the sound and feel of an amp. After that you can consider the balance of tubey qualities that you are looking for. The idea is different tube amps have their own unique tubey personality, and without discussing the specific balance of characteristics you are looking for, it's impossible to determine if you an Ampeg tube amp is the best choice for you or not. For example, An SVT and a Hiwatt tend to have very different personalities, but they are both tubey delicious in their own way.

Now if you have tried a couple of Ampeg tube amps and just loved the sound, it's a different matter. Then you need to balance cost, weight, power, and specific features.

An Ampeg SVT and 810E has a certain sound that people either tend to love or not. Millions of bassist consider this combination the gold standard of bass amplification. This rig is sort of a living legend as it has been around since 1969.

IMHO the 810E is more responsible for the sound than the SVT because it is one of the most heavily voiced, least transparent cabs you can buy. By "least transparent" I mean pretty much any head you play through an 810E is going to sound fairly similar.

If you use a more transparent cab, you will hear more of the subtle differences between each head and bass. I own two vintage SVTs and think they are great...I personally hate playing through the 810E, and I am not alone. But I don't really think it's my place to say the 810E sucks. How could it suck if millions of players love it so much. Try the rig out and make up your own mind.

The best way for you figure out the answer is to hunt down and play through the amps you are interested in. All of us have a different idea of how bass should sound. If I think a rig sounds awesome and rave about it, there is no guarantee that you will agree, so please don't take my word for it. Try the amp and form your own opinion.

If you can't try before you buy, try to read through the hyperbole. Many people who love SVTs are very tribal about it and think it's the perfect amp for every person in every occasion. Anyone who disagrees is considered an idiot. The true believers will use every positive subjective modifier in the book to describe how great the SVT and 810E is, but many of them cannot tell you very much about the rig that is objective. Even worse, many grossly exaggerate the rig's capabilities--and actually believe what they are saying is true.

IMHO it's about a 300W amp and it plays about as loud as any other 300W amp. If your guitar player has 100W half stack you can give him/her a good run for the money with an SVT and 810, but anyone who says they can crush a 100W Marshall with an SVT is trash talking or ignorant of what is really going on. For the record I own a couple of vintage 100W Marshalls and a 1960AX/BX full stack, so I know exactly how loud these amps can play. They can easily bury my SVTs.

If you want to understand why a 100W Marshall sounds louder than a 300W SVT you need to consider two factors. 1. Guitar speakers are more efficient than bass speakers, so they make more volume with less power. 2. Our ears are most sensitive to mid range frequencies. Because of this, if the guitar and bass are at the same volume, the guitar will actually be perceived as louder. Google and read about the Fletcher Munson curve.

Here's another helpful little tidbit...the decibel change produced by increasing the power from 100W to 300W is about 4.77dB. The general rule is you need a 3dB change to hear the difference. So increasing the power from 100W to 300W produces a noticeable change, but it's not a huge jump in volume.

It might seem like I am bashing on tube amps, but I am not, I just want you to make an informed choice instead of making a bad decision based on hype like I did. Back in the early 80s, I special ordered an MTI SVT and 810 after doing a bunch of research. I had never seen or heard an SVT, but all the articles I read gave it such glowing reviews. When the amp came in I actually though something was wrong with it, but since it was special ordered I was pretty much stuck with it. Every SVT and 810 I have played since then has sounded pretty much the same. The rig was perfect, it's just not my sound.

For the record, I own 28 amps and approximately 2/3rds of them would be considered all tube. I believe all but three have tubes in the preamps. So I have plenty of love for tubes.

Excellent post. I'll add my .02 to echo these comments.

So I have an SVT-2pro that I use to push to Mesa PH 4x10s. When those tubes get warm and are pushing those 8 10s to full excursion, there is no doubt that the sound is truly awesome. However, I have that head in an SVT Classic style shell and the weight of that beast has got to be north of 80 lbs.

So here's the thing, while nothing I've heard can really replace the sound of that hot tube amp, I have class D amps that can probably get me about 90% of the way there to my ears. My GK MB800 still gets those same speakers to full excursion and pumping air. It weighs in at 5 lbs or whatever and is akin to transporting a laptop in terms of hassle (i.e. nonexistent).

When it comes to a live setting, once the other instruments get going, whatever "amazing tubey goodness" i was hearing sort of becomes obscured by distorted guitars or crash symbols etc.. And A/B-ing either the tube amp or the class D yields similar results to me, my band mates, and very likely the audience. Not that the tubes aren't great, but I just get a perfectly awesome result from the new technology. I still have my SVT-2pro and don't plan on getting rid of it, but since I got the MB800, the SVT hasn't gotten a much in the way of stage time.

And I completely get the quest for a tube amp as a means to achieve some kind of pinnacle of bass tone. I've been there. I'm not at all trying to say that class D can be a complete replacement for tubes. But personally, I'm all about efficiency and finding real-world solutions. I play about 60 gigs a year, and If I can get 9/10 of the sound for 1/16 the weight, then for me, it's a done deal. I know there are other considerations such as reliability and serviceability, but in general for gigging situations, I'm having a tough time justifying tubes these days.