Do I really *need* a cab?

[incircles]

The first "loud" band I've played bass in is about to start playing gigs. In the past I've played keyboards or played quieter music and just plugged in directly via my Sansamp pedal.

I've got a GK Backline 600 and am considering a Sansamp RPM as a pre. With that gear, would I really need a cab on stage at all? Or could I just go from the Backline straight to the PA and be audible to our drummer?

 

[RCCollins]

what will you use at practice?

 

[incircles]

we practice at a space that already has amps and even instruments. in fact, after i bought the backline 600 i noticed that that was what i'd been using the entire time.

 

[RCCollins]

I would recommend a cab to practice with, as headphones never really give you a sense of what your sound will be like through speakers. But sure, you can gig with a DI, so don't feel obligated to break the bank

 

[incircles]

sorry, should have said that we use a 410 at practice. but it's nice to know that DI will work in a live context, as I've already got so much other gear (keyboard, racks, etc.) to bring with me.

 

[PSPookie]

If you aren't going to use a cab then why do you need the Backline at all?

Also, I'm not sure of the logic behind buying a head but not a cab.

Perhaps you should take a moment to get your ducks in a row before you go moving any more gear.

 

[BassmanPaul]

If you do this why bother with the Backline, just go from the RPM. Obviously you are the kind of player who does not consider your amplification chain as part of your "sound". I on the other hand do. I hate going direct and prefer to mic one of my cabinets.

What happens when you roll up to play a gig and find no PA or one only capable of vocals? How do you play that gig. If your band carries its own PA to every gig that's a different matter. How many guitar players would ask the same question you did? I'll answer for you NONE!

Paul

 

[RomancintheTone]

It may seem like it works, but it's very unprofessional to play a gig without an amp or other monitor. It won't matter much for small gigs, but I'm an audio engineer, it gets really annoying when you have to pump up the bass in the monitors just for him and then no one else can hear themselves. That's the main reason for stage amps in larger venues. It's just your own monitor. Ebay one and everyone's happy.

 

[whitespike]

I don't get the insurgence of bass players unwilling to haul equipment ... even at their own sound's detriment. Bass is about MOVING AIR! Would Elton John show up with a casio keyboard because the piano is too much of a pain? Get yourself a rig, sir.

 

[LaughingGroove]

What happens when you roll up to play a gig and find no PA or one only capable of vocals? How do you play that gig. If your band carries its own PA to every gig that's a different matter. How many guitar players would ask the same question you did? I'll answer for you NONE!

Paul

This is what I was going to say. I have been at places where there was PA support, but no monitors. And when the PA is out in front of you, you will not be able to hear yourself without some kind of monitor.

 

[uaudio]

Bass frequencies aren't the best for most small PAs, so from a reinforcement standpoint I'd go with a cab. The only applications where I've ever been okay with a straight DI setup are 1) you have your own monitor wedge(s) and mix or 2) you have your own in-ear momitor mix. In both these situations you'd need to have powerful subwoofers as well and not just PA speaker towers.

Otherwise you have to really screw with the PA to hear yourself, and frankly it won't work in your "loud" band.

 

[stylonpilson]

This is what I was going to say. I have been at places where there was PA support, but no monitors. And when the PA is out in front of you, you will not be able to hear yourself without some kind of monitor.

Yup. Worst gig I ever did was when I turned up with just my bass, because I had been assured that I'd be able to get monitor support from the PA. I'm never making that mistake again.

S.P.

 

[incircles]

Geez. All the hate

I injured my calf last year, and my gear-hauling abilities are still limited. Plus I've already got a vocal rack, a monstrous keyboard, and various other things to lug around and I've only got a small car. The bassist in my old band had an 810, but he was also twice my size and owned a pickup truck.

I wouldn't call myself a bassist -- I've just found myself playing bass for some reason -- so this stuff is new to me.

Bass frequencies aren't the best for most small PAs, so from a reinforcement standpoint I'd go with a cab. The only applications where I've ever been okay with a straight DI setup are 1) you have your own monitor wedge(s) and mix or 2) you have your own in-ear momitor mix. In both these situations you'd need to have powerful subwoofers as well and not just PA speaker towers..

This is helpful, and I suspect you're right.

If you aren't going to use a cab then why do you need the Backline at all?

Well, the idea was to pick up a used cab somewhere, and then I read about Geddy Lee's signal chain, and saw that he used a sansamp and an amp going directly into the PA... thought that might work for me as well. He does use an in-ear monitor, though.

Perhaps a 210 will be enough.

This is what I was going to say. I have been at places where there was PA support, but no monitors.

I've only been in that situation once, and as a vocalist, it was awful.

It may seem like it works, but it's very unprofessional to play a gig without an amp or other monitor. It won't matter much for small gigs, but I'm an audio engineer, it gets really annoying when you have to pump up the bass in the monitors just for him and then no one else can hear themselves. That's the main reason for stage amps in larger venues. It's just your own monitor. Ebay one and everyone's happy.

Larger venues aren't on the radar at this point. It's small clubs for now.

 

[::::BASSIST::::]

If you want peace of mind, get yourself a cab. There are no guarantees out there. If you have a self-contained rig you will have less stress.

Get something like a Bag End SD15 which is loud, easy to move and only costs about $300.

 

[dpbass613]

...i think geddy still backlines with amps as well, the sansamp is just for the out front signal into a stadiums pa system...again not the same thing as a small club or bar supplying a main pa that doesn't have subs, their are plenty of light/small alternatives out their, genz benz, markbass or even epifani cabs if you are looking for light weight (they are a little more pricey) and most of these can get your through a night if you showed up and only had the amp...

 

[Vic Winters]

then I read about Geddy Lee's signal chain, and saw that he used a sansamp and an amp going directly into the PA... thought that might work for me as well. He does use an in-ear monitor, though.

Perhaps a 210 will be enough.

I've only been in that situation once, and as a vocalist, it was awful.

First, Geddy's amp is plugged into a cabinet and turned all the way up. It's not miced but it's still used. Second, Geddy is playing arenas with million dollar sound systems, not dive bars with a high chance of questionable sound. A 1x12 or 2x10 would not take much space and should weigh less than 50 lbs. Add a small A/B switcher and you could run the keys through it as well if you needed to.

 

[incircles]

First, Geddy's amp is plugged into a cabinet and turned all the way up. It's not miced but it's still used.

"As of 2002, Lee no longer uses traditional bass amplifiers on stage, as he prefers to go direct into the venue's FOH console which helps the sound reinforcement during their concerts. Faced with the dilemma of what to do with the empty space left behind by the lack of large amplifier cabinets, Lee chose to fill the space in a unique way. For the 2002 Vapor Trails tour, Lee lined his side of the stage with three coin-operated Maytag dryers. Other large appliances would appear later in the same space."

That being said, you've got a good point about the sound system disparity.

 

[groove pump]

I guess we can agree that in those cases where you need a cab, you reeeeeally need a cab! My gang hauls a small PA - it really just runs vocals - and I make all my sound with my own gear, but when we do an occasional gig somewhere with a healthy PA, my rig is my monitor and I love having independent control of it.

If you're in smaller settings, I suspect that you could do well with a 2x10 since you're thinking of not even using a cab. I just noodled around with one of those Peavey Tour 2x10's (used) in a shop last weekend and it was both nice and light as well as happy to throw some sound around. Plus, it was cheap! A single 15" box may be great for you, too and if you dig around in the used market, you should be able to find a not-too-elaborate cab that your G-K can run just fine.

 

[two fingers]

This is what I was going to say. I have been at places where there was PA support, but no monitors. And when the PA is out in front of you, you will not be able to hear yourself without some kind of monitor.

First off, if I showed up to a gig that had PA , but no monitors (even for vocals???) I would be pissed! (I would eat my pride and do the gig kuz I like to think of myself as a pro, but still...). Second, you have to decide for you. If your band hauls a PA and has pretty hefty monitors, then go for it. I've done tons of gigs with a nice DI. If it's left to chance what you will be showing up to, I would have a cab. That being said, playing keys AND bass in a band??? Geez Geddy hire a keys guy! HAHA!

 

[incircles]

That being said, playing keys AND bass in a band??? Geez Geddy hire a keys guy! HAHA!

Heh, I don't attempt both at the same time (though I have in the past with less than spectacular results). There's just a bit of piano in one song.