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Do I really need a surge protector?

#22
Melvin7822 said:
I understand that an amp can only protect itself once and that it's obviously a must for my effects, but do I really need it for my amp?
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Probably not - but you can get a surge protecting power strip from any hardware store/etc for cheap and it can’t hurt so you might as well play it safe and get one.


Could a surge protector possibly starve an amp of current in the way a "power conditioner" does? And what is it about a power conditioner that starves an amp of the current it needs?
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No - and they have a reset switch.

I ask these questions as I have a Tripp-Lite Isobar that when I plug my amp into, the amp doesn't sound as good as opposed to directly plugging it into the wall outlet. From what I understand it has EMI/RFI filtering. Does that make it a "power conditioner" in disguise? Discuss, discuss...
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There are a few mega long threads on this topic here in the TB amp forum - (both camps - for and against). Do a search - but after reading the first few pages its just people repeating themselves over and over. For the record I didn’t use any for over 30 years and never had a problem - however, I use them now, and I still haven’t had any problems. ;)
 
#24
I have the Carvin 120s because the venues i play at are from the colorado mining era circa 1881 with very suspect wiring and it does eliminate any and all noise from the power coming out of the outlet, my mb800 is dead silent as well as my pf500 that i have set up in my studio, i also believe that power fluctuations no matter how small may be causing the cutting out issues especially in the pf500. The class d gear does'nt have the stored power in the circuitry like the older gear has and can't recover from fast enough when there are fluctuations in power.
 
#26
2milehighspike said:
I have the Carvin 120s because the venues i play at are from the colorado mining era circa 1881 with very suspect wiring and it does eliminate any and all noise from the power coming out of the outlet
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I don't know about all amps, but my Ashdown has the same MOVs and twin T filter contained in the Carvin built into it. I suspect most do, as amp manufacturers would rather spend a few bucks extra when building the amp than pay a lot more later for a warranty claim if it fails.
The MOV can blow on the first strike and be of no use on the second.
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MOVs are not delicate. My rehearsal space caught a direct lightning hit once. We were in a basement with concrete floors and a hit went through a steel lolly column not ten feet from me. The only piece of gear affected was my board, it had a channel input chip toasted, and that was only because I had a cord plugged into it with no mic, the cord lying on the concrete. MOVs will take many hits, and usually a hit of sufficient voltage to take them out will still do significant damage in spite of them.
 
#27
billfitzmaurice said:
I don't know about all amps, but my Ashdown has the same MOVs and twin T filter contained in the Carvin built into it. I suspect most do, as amp manufacturers would rather spend a few bucks extra when building the amp than pay a lot more later for a warranty claim if it fails. ..
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Or not, does the pf500 have them, all I know is from experience, my pf has'nt failed me once whether I have it running at 4 ohms , compressor , gain, eq etc. on 10. Is mine the exception? I am no expert but no one can tell me that quality, not strip , surge protector/ conditioners do not work as advertised, and are worth every penny!
 
#28
2milehighspike said:
Or not, does the pf500 have them, all I know is from experience, my pf has'nt failed me once whether I have it running at 4 ohms , compressor , gain, eq etc. on 10. Is mine the exception? I am no expert but no one can tell me that quality, not strip , surge protector/ conditioners do not work as advertised, and are worth every penny!
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I've been playing for 47 years. For the first 25 or so I never had even surge protection, and I've never used more than simple MOVs since they became available. The above noted lightning strike and blown channel input chip was the only equipment damage I've ever suffered.
 
#29
billfitzmaurice said:
I've been playing for 47 years. For the first 25 or so I never had even surge protection, and I've never used more than simple MOVs since they became available. The above noted lightning strike and blown channel input chip was the only equipment damage I've ever suffered.
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Lucky?, or are MOV's that good? Old guitar player of mine had lightening strike his backyard, in the house, it took out a Marshall JCM2000 amp, a Yamaha powered mixer, a Line6 effects pedal board thing, couple other pieces of rackgear, and an appliance or 2 like a microwave or something.

I plug all my stuff in surge protector power strips, the $10 ones, not furmans, etc., but I figure lightening is lightening.....if it can arc 2000-3000 ft. between cloud and ground, there isn't much I can do to stop it if it wants my gear.:D

I do run around and unplug it all if I'm at home during a storm. Growing up, the neighbors farm house had lightening rods all over it, but it still struck in through a closed window instead. Didn't kill anybody, but came close.
 
#30
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#33
will33 said:
Lucky?, or are MOV's that good? Old guitar player of mine had lightening strike his backyard, in the house, it took out a Marshall JCM2000 amp, a Yamaha powered mixer, a Line6 effects pedal board thing, couple other pieces of rackgear, and an appliance or 2 like a microwave or something.
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MOVs aren't that good. Nothing is. A severe enough hit will take out anything and everything. Luckily hits of that sort are extremely rare, and more often than not if severe damage occurs bad wiring is also involved. Which brings up the $25k Furman damage 'guarantee'. They wouldn't offer that if there was more than a million to one chance of anyone collecting on it, and they know there isn't. Power surges that severe just don't happen all that often. It's not like the power companies don't use protective measures too.
 
#34
Melvin7822 said:
I understand that an amp can only protect itself once and that it's obviously a must for my effects, but do I really need it for my amp?

Could a surge protector possibly starve an amp of current in the way a "power conditioner" does? And what is it about a power conditioner that starves an amp of the current it needs?

I ask these questions as I have a Tripp-Lite Isobar that when I plug my amp into, the amp doesn't sound as good as opposed to directly plugging it into the wall outlet. From what I understand it has EMI/RFI filtering. Does that make it a "power conditioner" in disguise? Discuss, discuss...
Click to expand...

The only time a conditioner (a TRUE conditioner) will cause any kind of problem is when it's not sized to handle the loads. Transformers limit current but filtering is just filtering, not really "conditioning".

The only way for us to comment further is if you post the model of the power strip. If it's a cheap one and you hear a difference, get rid of it.
 
#35
billfitzmaurice said:
MOVs aren't that good. Nothing is. A severe enough hit will take out anything and everything. Luckily hits of that sort are extremely rare, and more often than not if severe damage occurs bad wiring is also involved. Which brings up the $25k Furman damage 'guarantee'. They wouldn't offer that if there was more than a million to one chance of anyone collecting on it, and they know there isn't. Power surges that severe just don't happen all that often. It's not like the power companies don't use protective measures too.
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OTOH, if you ask those who work with the power grid (as well as anyone who works for Furman/Panamaxx, Tripp-Lite, APC, etc, they'll all tell you that the grid is maintained as well as we're told by the power companies. They'll say it's outdated and not able to provide what is being demanded of it. Line voltage isn't usually 120VAC and it's not constant, at any particular voltage because of local demand and distance to the substations. I have seen mine as high as ~130VAC and as low as 116VAC- I'm close to a transformer (residential area) that may have issues and I'm not far from a substation but we do have some industrial areas nearby.
 
#37
1958Bassman said:
OTOH, if you ask those who work with the power grid (as well as anyone who works for Furman/Panamaxx, Tripp-Lite, APC, etc, they'll all tell you that the grid is maintained as well as we're told by the power companies. They'll say it's outdated and not able to provide what is being demanded of it. Line voltage isn't usually 120VAC and it's not constant, at any particular voltage because of local demand and distance to the substations. I have seen mine as high as ~130VAC and as low as 116VAC- I'm close to a transformer (residential area) that may have issues and I'm not far from a substation but we do have some industrial areas nearby.
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+1. And if you live in CT, you'll see these issues and many others first hand during almost any storm. The power goes out for days at a time, sometimes weeks.
 
#38
bassgod0dmw said:
+1. And if you live in CT, you'll see these issues and many others first hand during almost any storm. The power goes out for days at a time, sometimes weeks.
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Cure #1: Put the lines underground. Cure #2: Keep trees cut back from above ground lines. Reasons why Cure #1 and Cure #2 aren't employed: They cut into profit margins. Reason why your government doesn't force the utility companies to employ cures anyway: That cuts into PAC donations. :hmm:
 
#39
billfitzmaurice said:
Cure #1: Put the lines underground. Cure #2: Keep trees cut back from above ground lines. Reasons why Cure #1 and Cure #2 aren't employed: They cut into profit margins. Reason why your government doesn't force the utility companies to employ cures anyway: That cuts into PAC donations. :hmm:
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+1

Our grid problems down here come on summer afternoons when everybody is running their A/C's non-stop. Last summer was particularly bad, to the point, a couple times they came up with this "rolling blackout" scheme where they would cut power to certain areas for a couple/few hours, then power that one up and cut it to a different neighborhood, etc. to take stress off the grid.

Local voter turnout here is pathetically low, as I would imagine it is a lot of places. Local political power is pretty well concentrated in a couple of neighborhoods who do actively participate and pretty much end up electing each other all the time. Can't really blame them, it's everybody elses fault for not speaking up, but guess which neighborhoods didn't have to participate in the rolling blackouts.:hmm:
 

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