Do I really want/need overdrive?

[two fingers]

Two words.

Clean blend.

For what you're using it for I highly recommend a drive pedal with clean blend.

I use a JHS Mod Soul Food. It dials in some fantastic grit. And with the clean blend I am able to let it eat more than I otherwise would.

If you are going for angry drive, a clean blend can be a crutch and you need to ditch it. But if you are jist wanting a little "fur" on your tone, I think you have to have it.

Dial in 120% of the fur you would normally use. And then bring up the clean blend to bring back the big lows and cut through.

 

[SonnyBassPlayer]

Put a booster between the bass and the OD: if the OD is fed more signal the distortion's "grain" will be more prominent.

I've owned a Bass Big Muff for a year and never got to really appreciate it, playing it with my P basses. Since I bought my G&L El Toro which has way more output that my passive P basses I LOVE the Big Muff. It sounds more "abrasive".

Also try boosting... the high freqs.

 

[Westsailor]

I went on the long term search for overdrive, researching and trying numerous pedals. I wanted a lighter OD, as I don't like anything approaching a "buzzy", thin, or muffled sound. I tried and disliked numerous ODs in the past and I simply wanted softer breakup, giving some girth to the sound.

snip

Just curious if anyone else went through this thought pattern. I know OD/Dist/Dirt is a passionate topic!

I too wanted an OD that would provide a 'growl' that wasn't obviously just laying distortion on top of tone.. I settled on a L.R. Baggs Stadium DI which gives a smooth (as you say) 'girth' to my tone. My theory about such subtlety is maybe it is not immediately obvious to the listener but it certainly does exist and 'subconsciously' adds to the mix even though it may seem to be buried. Like when someone says 'I can't put my finger on it but what is that tone? How do I get it?'

 

[Being and Bass]

I know that my guitarist likes to stomp in on some of my mids for his tone, so to compensate I boost some of the "mud tones" as to not compete. A live sound with others is always far different from a recording sound.

As for your OD, you may be right that OD is not for you in this case. I've always been a dirt guy so my ODs drive pretty hard and are noticeable. If you aren't looking for that, but just a thickening of tone and some more presence, you might honestly consider an EQ pedal without a gain stage and affect your tone directly. Or, if you are going to stick to the OD, try a "clean" OD that is designed to give you more headroom like the Soul Food and skip any kind of dirt altogether.

 

[bearhart74]

Need? no.
Only thing you really need is air, water, food and sleep.

Want? that's up to you.

 

[Being and Bass]

(And just as a note: most of what we do isn't totally distinct or clearly perceptible in a live setting, but its effect is nonetheless present throughout. While nobody (including you) can hear slightly driving your post-preamp signal, you would be surprised the effect it has on shows where you use it vs where you don't. My Hot Tubes pedal, on its own, is felt more than heard, but is certainly a part of my sound.)

 

[klejst]

Perhaps you need it like a million bucks in your bank account...perhaps you need it like a bottle of sand in a desert...only you can decide if you really need it or not...

 

[Wfrance3]

Here’s my take on OD, speaking as a "clean signal" player 95% of the time...
It took me a long (realative term I know..) time to understand the role of OD is the overall mix. My light bulb moment arrived after lots of pedals, a good portion of which were compression pedals. You eq is affected by other things besides an eq pedal, or eq adjustment somewhere in the signal chain.
Right now, pedal-wise, I use a sansamp para-di, with a keeley bassist comp going into it. Thats's all.
What I have learned is that you can set the sansamp flat, and adjust the blend and the drive knobs only, and it changes your tone. Most of the time, the only 3 knobs that get manipulated are the drive, blend and the knob that adjustst the center on the mids. Bass, treble and mid stay flat.
I know that doesn't really address your overdrive question specifically, but think it does indirectly. I kinda interpreted it as a cutting thru the mix question. What I just outlined, does in fact, help do that.
The Keeley compressor honestly helps me more in terms of the gain knob than anything else. It's part of the equation as well. I do apply a little limiting compression. It helps me with boomi-ness and also just beefs up and rounds out my tone. Between those 2 pedals I've been able to adjust a tonal sweet spot into every situation I've been in.

 

[logicman69]

I had the same issue with my OD when I started using it (Darkglass BK3). I found I had to crank the drive for it to make a difference in the mix. It definitely takes a little tweaking to get it right, but so worth it when you do. It just thickens my bands sound and gives it that extra "oomph" that is needed.

 

[Volunteerk9]

Does the grizzly have a clean blend? Can you use a ls2 or something to blend in your clean bass as well? I don’t know the sound of the grizzly that well but my mini 66 I have the OD set as a bass boost with very low gain, only really crunchy if I am say slapping etc, and then have it about 50/50 clean blended in as well... benefits of my pedal doing all that in one though so no idea if that’s too much for the grizzly?

Ditto the Boss LS2 suggestion. I recently bought one and am really digging it. You can run as much dirt as you want/need to be heard without any low end loss with the 2 loops. To me, it’s quickly turning into a ‘must have’ pedal.

 

[micguy]

I'm pretty much in the same camp as the OP. I like what a touch of overdrive can do, but just a touch. And yes, it's hard to hear in a mix if all you do it add a touch of it.

The secret to me in using that live is you need an overdrive that's gentle (so it doesnt sound like a box of bees or rude farting noises), but also one that isn't transparent. A lot of folks are searching for a "transparent" overdrive, and I'm not really certain why, or even what they mean by that. Overdrive adds harmonics, which occur higher in freq than the fundamental note you're playing. So, right away, any overdrive has to change your spectral content - it's kind of part of how overdrive works in my opinion.

Anyway, if you want to hear what a gentle overdrive does in a mix, then you need to boost what it does a bit - some mid boost (my favorite freq range to boost is about 1.5 kHz) will go along way in adding some audibility to a gentle overdrive, and still keep away from the rudeness you're trying to avoid.

I haven't found the perfect pedal or combination of pedals to do this yet; the closest I have found in 1 pedal is a Catalinbread RAH, which is close to , though not exactly the sound in my head. I tend to use it for one song in a set - in church music, we often open with an upbeat song where a bit of drive and mid boost is just the ticket to making that song sound "alive" - the following songs are often contemplative in vibe, with means...turn the thing off.

 

[40Hz]

I’m a mostly clean player and a firm believer in a light touch when it comes to using effects with bass. So using a setting where it’s hard to tell if a pedal is on or not is no bad thing in my book.

About the only thing I’ll use OD for is for some thickening by getting a little more of a tube head vibe out of a too clean solid-state amp. So for that I’ve found a Southampton Fifth Gear hits all the points I’m looking for in an OD.

I recently heard a relatively new OD (Lounsberry Rupert Bass OD) that sounded promising and seemed to have a touch more attitude (in a good way) than my Fifth Gear. It looked promising enough I ordered one. I’m expecting it to arrive this week. If it lived up to my hopes I’ll post a review over in the Pedals subtopic board.

Note: Lounsberry has some other interesting products. Pedals designed for use with keyboards? Wow! Find their website Invalid Link Removed.

 

[basscapes]

Ditto the Boss LS2 suggestion. I recently bought one and am really digging it. You can run as much dirt as you want/need to be heard without any low end loss with the 2 loops. To me, it’s quickly turning into a ‘must have’ pedal.

Using my (Christmas gift from Wife!) LS-2 as a channel switcher between my Rusty Box and SCR-DI, kinda like those guys (otherwise known as guitarists) who channel switch clean dirty on a Marshall- it certainly helps with regards to level matching too (having BOTH volume knobs right there instead adjusting one pedal and then the other!).

Another +1 for "must have".

 

[scuzzy]

Agree with basscapes. At a casual listen, you will hear clean bass on most tracks. But when iso'd, they can be full of grit. It may even appear that way live. Because those great harmonics can blend with cymbals and guitar. But it's there, and without it, it wouldn't sound the same. I think it's great that the fundamental is still present enough that it has the appearance as being clean. Although it's dirty. That, to me, indicates a good EQ. Bass isn't a lead instrument typically. You lay the foundation. Cutting through shouldn't be used in all styles of music.

 

[otp57]

I went on the long term search for overdrive, researching and trying numerous pedals. I wanted a lighter OD, as I don't like anything approaching a "buzzy", thin, or muffled sound. I tried and disliked numerous ODs in the past and I simply wanted softer breakup, giving some girth to the sound.

I landed on the Grizzly OD and found what I believe is the closest match. As many others (and I) have written in TB, it is as controllable and flexible of a sound as you can get. The subtlety I wanted is here and the high/mid controls are wonderful. Playing by myself, I can get some very rich, tubey tones.

The only problem? When I play with a band you cannot tell if the pedal is on or off, period. The effect is completely washed away in the mix and that gentle OD that sounds great solo is just not a factor when playing live. My bass also seems to become quieter in the mix when OD is engaged (might just need to adjust it).

This leaves me with a few possible conclusions:

1. OD needs to be exaggerated so that it can be heard live. Sometime the bass needs to be a bit more "ugly" than pristine in order to punch through. Conclusion - lay on the OD thicker and experiment around.

2. Use OD only for recording only. Similarly, maybe the subtle effect I have in my head is a recorded sound only. For live, focus more on a traditional bass tone.

3. OD is not for me. Maybe the balance I'm trying to strike - "OD is barely there but you can still totally hear it" - isn't reasonable? In other words, pick a lane (OD or not) and sell the Grizzly if it doesn't work out.

4. Use a different pedal. I honestly don't think this is the issue, but perhaps the Grizzly just isn't giving my what I want for the goal I have. Given how much better I like this pedal than others, I don't think a new pedal is the issue.

Just curious if anyone else went through this thought pattern. I know OD/Dist/Dirt is a passionate topic!

Try over driving you amp first.
Keep master volume down and turn the preamp up for over drive you like.
I like the TS7 for my tube amps
I have a custom SS over drive unit.

 

[mpdd]

I generally just overdrive my mesa tube head, but for my "od" with solid state heads i use my fuzzrocious rat tail with the no diode distortion dialed back and clean blended. It can get you that big jesus and marychain or nirvana type od, that might seem too intense by itself, but it works great in a heavy rock type band mix.

 

[SLO Surfer]

All of my pedals, amps, and basses sound different in my bedroom than they do in a band mix. Thus, I don’t work on dialing in my sounds in my bedroom, and I dial everything in at rehearsals while in a band mix.

Go with #1

 

[ashtray]

I never considered overdrive good for bass until more recently (last 5 years?). I still dont really use it much, but I have a better appreciation for it. Have listened to solo’d bass tracks from the 60’s which had overdrive on the bass that I never realized. Was that just a product of technology limits in the playback systems of most consumer audio? I know they used to severely cut the bass signal on old recordings because home/car audio just couldn’t support it. Maybe overdrive was used to supplement the bass sound in these cases?

On guitar, when you transition from bedroom to live playing, in order to get the same overdrive levels you got in your bedroom, you actually REDUCE the gain for live settings! And with that, its recommended to lower the bass knob as well to keep things from getting too muddy.

If you can’t hear the overdrive in the band setting - good? Perhaps that’s better than the alternative? Maybe people hear it, and its a nice subtle effect that adds to the overall sound of the band? Need to be careful when adjusting your tones in a band situation. You want the best overall sound for the music, not the best bass tone possible, or to hear the bass stand out from the mix.

With overdrive, I’d start light and slowly move up from there. You’ll lose some punch and dynamics - just due to the high compression of overdrive. For me, there’s times I want that punch and over times I just need an even steady tone.

Just comes down to your setup, the band, and the music, and how overdrive can or can’t fit in to all that.

 

[Fuzzbass]

I've found lately that a LOT of bass parts on recordings (especially dense mixes) are actually quite dirty or fuzzy sounding.

There are a bunch of examples on YouTube, but I keep posting this one because it's a favorite. I had no idea the bass line was so dirty until I heard it isolated:


So, to the OP, as others have said, don't be afraid to "exaggerate". How your bass sounds in the band mix is more important than how it sounds when you're rehearsing solo in your bedroom/studio/whatever.

Also... you generally want your dirty tone to be somewhat louder than your clean tone. I think that's because all the added harmonics give the illusion of higher volume. Maybe also because distortion adds compression - the heavier the distortion, the greater the compression. I try to set my dirty tone so that it matches my clean tone (volume-wise!) when I'm digging in.

 

[Johnny Mac]

The only problem? When I play with a band you cannot tell if the pedal is on or off, period. The effect is completely washed away in the mix and that gentle OD that sounds great solo is just not a factor when playing live. My bass also seems to become quieter in the mix when OD is engaged (might just need to adjust it).

Are you judging this based on how it sounds on stage, or from the audience? Because something that sounds subtle on stage or in rehearsal can sometimes be more noticeable through FOH.