Do I really want/need overdrive?

[Low Key]

I went on the long term search for overdrive, researching and trying numerous pedals. I wanted a lighter OD, as I don't like anything approaching a "buzzy", thin, or muffled sound. I tried and disliked numerous ODs in the past and I simply wanted softer breakup, giving some girth to the sound.

I landed on the Grizzly OD and found what I believe is the closest match. As many others (and I) have written in TB, it is as controllable and flexible of a sound as you can get. The subtlety I wanted is here and the high/mid controls are wonderful. Playing by myself, I can get some very rich, tubey tones.

The only problem? When I play with a band you cannot tell if the pedal is on or off, period. The effect is completely washed away in the mix and that gentle OD that sounds great solo is just not a factor when playing live. My bass also seems to become quieter in the mix when OD is engaged (might just need to adjust it).

This leaves me with a few possible conclusions:

1. OD needs to be exaggerated so that it can be heard live. Sometime the bass needs to be a bit more "ugly" than pristine in order to punch through. Conclusion - lay on the OD thicker and experiment around.

2. Use OD only for recording only. Similarly, maybe the subtle effect I have in my head is a recorded sound only. For live, focus more on a traditional bass tone.

3. OD is not for me. Maybe the balance I'm trying to strike - "OD is barely there but you can still totally hear it" - isn't reasonable? In other words, pick a lane (OD or not) and sell the Grizzly if it doesn't work out.

4. Use a different pedal. I honestly don't think this is the issue, but perhaps the Grizzly just isn't giving my what I want for the goal I have. Given how much better I like this pedal than others, I don't think a new pedal is the issue.

Just curious if anyone else went through this thought pattern. I know OD/Dist/Dirt is a passionate topic!

 

[Bunch O Numbers]

I've always found I have had set any overdrive a lot dirtier for band settings than by myself to be able to hear the dirt. Also, how are you setting your eq, I've found a slight mid boost helps make any dirt a bit more apparent.

 

[Low Key]

I've always found I have had set any overdrive a lot dirtier for band settings than by myself to be able to hear the dirt. Also, how are you setting your eq, I've found a slight mid boost helps make any dirt a bit more apparent.

Good question. I have a slight amount of Overdrive and even less distortion. If you know the Grizzly pedal, that would be 9:00 for OD and 8:00 for distortion. I mainly leave the midcut usused (flat mids) and cut a little off the highs. So overall, my it's flat sound minus some highs, and a boost to OD and Distortion. No other EQing. I use the volume control match the volume of the pedal being on or off ... unity gain.

I should add the signal going into the pedal is pretty hot, so my settings would need to be much lower than a passive bass.

 

[stigbeve]

I like choice 1.

 

[Alien8]

It's a good question... And the answer is always in the mix. If you want it to be heard, turing it louder works sometines, as does boosting a few frequencies with an EQ, usually mids.

Those good sounding bedroom tones can be had in the mix, but yes, sometimes it needs to be exaggerated, and sometimes it just gels so well with the other instruments that you don't notice it. Until it's gone. Do what's fun live, and save being precise for recording. Turn it up!

 

[Basshappi]

Electric bass lives in the mids, try boosting there.

 

[theunknowndude]

Does the grizzly have a clean blend? Can you use a ls2 or something to blend in your clean bass as well? I don’t know the sound of the grizzly that well but my mini 66 I have the OD set as a bass boost with very low gain, only really crunchy if I am say slapping etc, and then have it about 50/50 clean blended in as well... benefits of my pedal doing all that in one though so no idea if that’s too much for the grizzly?

 

[XLunacy]

A heavier attack on the strings will make a lot of difference on how the OD feels and reacts ; this might be what you need to achieve the sound you have in your head

 

[Low Key]

Does the grizzly have a clean blend? Can you use a ls2 or something to blend in your clean bass as well? I don’t know the sound of the grizzly that well but my mini 66 I have the OD set as a bass boost with very low gain, only really crunchy if I am say slapping etc, and then have it about 50/50 clean blended in as well... benefits of my pedal doing all that in one though so no idea if that’s too much for the grizzly?

The Grizzly doesn't have a blend, probably because it is so transparent. Based on all the answers here, I think I'm going to do more trial and error with settings and EQ to see if I can change it up a bit. I am encouraged!

 

[CapnSev]

I like choice 1.

No kidding. I find that choice #1 is truth most almost any mix, not just with an overdrive. What sounds totally nasty at home, sounds freakin’ great on stage.

 

[Blu bro]

I think option 1 makes the biggest difference than I like to admit.

I learnt this by listening to isolated bass tracks. I was amazed at how thin some bass tracks sounded or how clanky it sounded by itself and yet in the mix works beautifully.

I am the same as you in the fact that I like the smallest amount of dirt possible just to give my bass a tiny bit of breakup when I dig in. But I am learning that isolated bass might sound "ugly" to me- however within the mix it does what is needed.

 

[cataract]

I was a one pedal player for years- a Boss TU-2 plugged into the front of an SVT played either clean or as overdriven as the Gain & Master Volume Knobs would get me.
Diving into the world of pedals has been a real joy. My bank account would probably disagree but it feels great to know exactly what tool I need for the job, as different & varied as they may be.
You've probably already heard this a bunch but if you're looking for something different, I wholeheartedly recommend checking out the v2 Southampton Fifth Gear as a simple, no nonsense overdrive.

 

[bassbrad]

I've always found I have had set any overdrive a lot dirtier for band settings than by myself to be able to hear the dirt. Also, how are you setting your eq, I've found a slight mid boost helps make any dirt a bit more apparent.

I have always found it necessary to make adjustments to the band mix. Usually it is much louder and brighter than my preference solo. Much depends on what else is happening especially guitar and cymbal action.

 

[Nunovsky]

I think it's all a matter of finding the right eq live. I kind of like that subtle od that seems transparent in the mix but adds fatness and flavour to the bass sound.
That's how I like to use my Jack Casady. I set the impendance at 250k at that breakup point that gives a subtle grit, then I turn to 50k when I want to clean it up or put to 500k when I want to drive it harder and get a more noticiable drive.
Another thing that makes the drive more present live is to play with a pick. It gives an added crispness that makes the drive cut through.
Also it's important to find the right frequencies to cut through. Like some have said, it all lies in the mids but also a bit of treble adds to the tone sharpness. Everybody's concerned about the low end, but one of the drives I had that worked best in a live situation was one that I felt that lacked a bit of low end. But in the band it sounded awesome. I still regret selling it.

 

[Nephilymbass]

I went on the long term search for overdrive, researching and trying numerous pedals. I wanted a lighter OD, as I don't like anything approaching a "buzzy", thin, or muffled sound. I tried and disliked numerous ODs in the past and I simply wanted softer breakup, giving some girth to the sound.

I landed on the Grizzly OD and found what I believe is the closest match. As many others (and I) have written in TB, it is as controllable and flexible of a sound as you can get. The subtlety I wanted is here and the high/mid controls are wonderful. Playing by myself, I can get some very rich, tubey tones.

The only problem? When I play with a band you cannot tell if the pedal is on or off, period. The effect is completely washed away in the mix and that gentle OD that sounds great solo is just not a factor when playing live. My bass also seems to become quieter in the mix when OD is engaged (might just need to adjust it).

This leaves me with a few possible conclusions:

1. OD needs to be exaggerated so that it can be heard live. Sometime the bass needs to be a bit more "ugly" than pristine in order to punch through. Conclusion - lay on the OD thicker and experiment around.

2. Use OD only for recording only. Similarly, maybe the subtle effect I have in my head is a recorded sound only. For live, focus more on a traditional bass tone.

3. OD is not for me. Maybe the balance I'm trying to strike - "OD is barely there but you can still totally hear it" - isn't reasonable? In other words, pick a lane (OD or not) and sell the Grizzly if it doesn't work out.

4. Use a different pedal. I honestly don't think this is the issue, but perhaps the Grizzly just isn't giving my what I want for the goal I have. Given how much better I like this pedal than others, I don't think a new pedal is the issue.

Just curious if anyone else went through this thought pattern. I know OD/Dist/Dirt is a passionate topic!

I don’t go too crazy with overdrive. On our newest album I tracked all the bass with a DI then reamped and during the reamping I dialed in all my pedals and controlled them with my hands. I found in the mix I was using more dirt than I would be myself.

 

[el murdoque]

If you're just after that bit of sizzle you get from a very light OD, that will always be lost under the cymbals and guitars.
I guess we've all found that one glorious setting at home, went to band practice, waited for the moment, kicked it in - just to have that huge grin slip off our faces.

 

[Janforth]

I love the Grizzly pedal, I got it for the same reason as yourself - light OD. I previously was against OD, and wondered why so many bassist had it, not to mention the endless threads regarding it, which piqued my interest. I would go on you tube and listen to demos of different OD pedals, almost all of which made me not buy them because the demos were mostly exaggerated settings and I wanted mild/light OD. Then I listened to some Rush isolated bass tracks that I thought were clean but weren't, that's when I got serious about getting an OD pedal, but which one? More you tube research, I saw Ed Friedland's demo of the Grizzly, and that was all it took.

I like that it doesn't sound as dirty when playing with the band, but I do sit well in the mix. As others and yourself have mentioned - check your settings, and EQ especially in the mids, the grizzly is an amazing pedal.

 

[gregmon79]

I know I had the same issue for a long time. I tried quite a few ODs until I started to figure out that I did need to boost the output a bit if you wanted to cut and actually hear the OD. For me, the last 3 or 4 that worked the best were the Bedlam Drive from Big Game, the ODB from Dunwich (both OCD spinoffs), the modded Pork Loin and what I use now the MBD1. All of these got me to that place where you could actually hear it when I stomped it. The MBD1 still blows me away. It sounds so good by itself and in a band mix.

Having said all that, I feel that all the tone shaping I use has something to do with it as well. I use a DOD fx10 for a slight boost and then a rusty box and B7KU for tone shaping as well as more slight boost. Then I end it with the Southampton Ictineo for a "master" volume to all of it as well as a little tone shaping. So as you can see, there are some layers that my dirt passes through before it hits my amp. I feel this helps my OD tone cut through quite a bit. However, I think you can do the same with a boost or just by cranking the OD a little more than you'd think it may need to go. I also always felt that we shouldn't be scared to add treble to our signal as bassists. Just because we supply the low end doesn't mean we can't have some treble content too. I add quite a bit into my signal so that could be another reason why I am able to cut pretty well and actually hear the grain in my OD with the band.

 

[gregmon79]

I love the Grizzly pedal, I got it for the same reason as yourself - light OD. I previously was against OD, and wondered why so many bassist had it, not to mention the endless threads regarding it, which piqued my interest. I would go on you tube and listen to demos of different OD pedals, almost all of which made me not buy them because the demos were mostly exaggerated settings and I wanted mild/light OD. Then I listened to some Rush isolated bass tracks that I thought were clean but weren't, that's when I got serious about getting an OD pedal, but which one? More you tube research, I saw Ed Friedland's demo of the Grizzly, and that was all it took.

I like that it doesn't sound as dirty when playing with the band, but I do sit well in the mix. As others and yourself have mentioned - check your settings, and EQ especially in the mids, the grizzly is an amazing pedal.

Very, very good point.

 

[basscapes]

I've found lately that a LOT of bass parts on recordings (especially dense mixes) are actually quite dirty or fuzzy sounding. It seems to make the part cut a little bit more without having to resort to mammoth amounts of EQ and such.

I recently did a bass track on a song that was simply drums, two gtrs, a few vocals and piano. Of all the things I could have used (Ampeg SCR-DI, MXR81 pre) , I ended up using my Rusty Box preamp right into the power amp and SVT810, miked it up (with NO DI! Oh, the horror, I hear some say! LOL) and was off to the races. No comp or EQ while tracking, with exception of about 2 or 3 db of limiting in the final mix.

It sounded wonderful!

So sometimes what you think might work doesn't. Look at all those tracks in the 60's/70's where the bass guitar is highly noticeable- I'm betting that it's being played through a tube amp (SVT? Hiwatt? Fender? Alembic pre? Hmm...) that is nowhere near clean sounding.