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Do I want a looper? Help me out here....

Joe Nerve

Joe Nerve

Oct 7, 2000
18,619
38,939
New York City
www.joenerve.com
Disclosures
Endorsing artist: Musicman basses
#1
I buy stuff and I never use it. I don't have a head for learning complicated things. Bought a ZOOM MS60B, and even that frustrates the hell out of me, though it's one of the very few effects I've purchased that I actually use.

So... I'm getting gas for a looper as I've been jumping into a lot of duos and cover bands lately where I think it could come in handy. I also play a lot of slap bass when fiddling in the house, but never EVER play it out anywhere and I thought a looper could open some creative (and performance) doors.

Educate me please.

I'm not even sure what these things are capable of. Why are some $150 and others $500? What would be a good middle of the road one? Simple to operate, yet not leave me with any big regrets? I'd really like to keep the cost under $300, because as I said already, there's an excellent chance I might buy this thing, get bored of it a week, and then have something else I need to put on my must sell list which I still must put together.

The Boss RC30 and the Digitach JML2 are the front runners for me now if I do decide to pull the trigger.

Also considering the Vox lil looper, just to maybe get my feet wet.

What should I buy and why?

Thanks.

:)
 
#2
Everybody needs a looper, they are just too much fun. You can lay loops and have them repeat endlessly. They are also fantastic for improving your timing and solo ability, it never gets old of you wanking over the same three chords. If you are going to play with a group live using a looper you will need to be click track tight, so in-ears will help immensely. I really only use mine to sample live.

This guy uses one like a champ, there are countless fantastic examples just hit up youtube. BOSS holds loopstation contests each year, those always yield great players.

 
#4
Bryan R. Tyler said:
Do you want a single track looper or a multitrack looper? That's the first thing to figure out.
Click to expand...

If you mean would I like to stack the loops, then yes. I guess I want a multitrack looper. I'd be fine with just 3 or 4 tracks though. I was under the impression that they all lay down multiple loops. See how much I need to learn here :).

If anyone is familiar with the Boss RC30 and the Digitach JML2, what are the tradeoffs on each? If I chose one of those should I just go with the less expensive digitech? Yeah, I know the specs are all written out, but truth be told... I don't have a clue what I'd need or why I'd need it.
 
#5
If your plan is to use the looper while playing with other people it really helps to have the ability to send a click track to the monitors without sending it to the main PA mix.

Multitrack looping gives you the ability to turn separate looped parts on and off independently of each other. Its separate from stacking. With a single track looper you have one loop that you can stack any number of layers on top of. You can turn the whole thing on and off, but not individual layers. Most of them nowdays will let you 'undo' the last layer you put down, but anything lower down in the stack than that is ganged together.

With something like a Boss RC-50, for example, you have 3 separate 'stacks' of looped parts, and a click track/drum pattern, that all synchronize with each other and can be turned on and off independently.
 
#6
Joe Nerve said:
If you mean would I like to stack the loops, then yes. I guess I want a multitrack looper. I'd be fine with just 3 or 4 tracks though. I was under the impression that they all lay down multiple loops. See how much I need to learn here :).

If anyone is familiar with the Boss RC30 and the Digitach JML2, what are the tradeoffs on each? If I chose one of those should I just go with the less expensive digitech? Yeah, I know the specs are all written out, but truth be told... I don't have a clue what I'd need or why I'd need it.
Click to expand...

All loopers can stack infinitely on top of one loop. A multitrack looper will have different loops that you can stack on top of and they allow you to make different song parts and switch between them.
 
#7
Bryan R. Tyler said:
All loopers can stack infinitely on top of one loop. A multitrack looper will have different loops that you can stack on top of and they allow you to make different song parts and switch between them.
Click to expand...

Ahh... these are the things I know nothing about. I've been reading a bit more about the 2 above that I mentioned but I'm getting the feeling they don't multitrack? Am I right about that? :) I realize also that the boss has effects, and the digitech don't, which will come into consideration. Thanks by the way, for the responses.
 
#8
Track count makes a difference depending on what you want to do. If you're trying to compose full songs, then a multitrack looper becomes necessary after a while- songs with just one loop repeating in the background become monotonous after a while.

That Boss has two tracks, the Digitech just one. You'll actually find the extra bells and whistles often get in the way on loopers- for a single track looper, the Ditto X2 is really great and simple to use. For multitrack, the Boomerang III is very good, and if you want to get into MIDI control, the Loopy HD app for iPhone/iPad is phenomenal.
 
#9
I don't believe the ones you're looking at multitrack. Also, if you are looking to use it with, say a drum machine (you pointed me to this thread on the BeatBuddy thread, so... ;) ) you'll definitely want MIDI sync. Otherwise, if your loop is off, even by a MILLISECOND, it will drift, and drift, and d r rrrrr ii fffffffffffff tttttttttttttttttttttttttttt.

The two products mentioned in the BB thread are both great. I just can't decide between them! I was going to start an A vs. B thread... Might do that later I guess!

EDIT: The boss has 2 tracks. Not sure what sync functions it has with the two.
 
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#11
Not all allow infinite stacking, for example the looper function of the popular Line-6 DL4 decays the tracks that are 1 or two iterations back. Some see this is a good thing. A lot of personal preference comes into it, so just get the BOSS RC-3 to start (or 30) and learn what it can do and what you can do with it. I have every BOSS looper, and the simpler ones such as the RC-3 (or 30, though I prefer the discontinued RC-20 for its backward function) are great tools for learning songs, travel practice, composition, soloing or technique practice, musical sketchpad, etc.

I was recently travelling with my RC-3 and used to it compose the bed tracks for an electronica album, for bass practice in hotel room, and live as a looper. Caution however; the chance of even a pro-level drummer being able to simply lock-in with a looper live (unless it's the RC-50 emitting a drum/click track to their in-ears) is very low. Don't count on it for that. There are ways to create live loops a drummer can more easily hear and play to in a live environment, which you must learn, and so too the drummer have learned how to do so or you'll quickly go off the rails. However if you and a drummer are willing to work on it, it can be done to great effect.
 
#12
Bryan R. Tyler said:
Track count makes a difference depending on what you want to do. If you're trying to compose full songs, then a multitrack looper becomes necessary after a while- songs with just one loop repeating in the background become monotonous after a while.

That Boss has two tracks, the Digitech just one. You'll actually find the extra bells and whistles often get in the way on loopers- for a single track looper, the Ditto X2 is really great and simple to use. For multitrack, the Boomerang III is very good, and if you want to get into MIDI control, the Loopy HD app for iPhone/iPad is phenomenal.
Click to expand...

i thought the digitech allow for multi track looping? at least from what i understand the from the jamman solo xt onwards allow you to choose the track at which you are supposed to record on, the awesome thing about the jamman that no one seemed to talk about is actually the fact it can sync its tempo with other jamman, which meant that you can have a jamman on your board, your guitarist at his board and sync it together for perfect looping tempo through different board
 
#14
willbassyeah said:
i thought the digitech allow for multi track looping? at least from what i understand the from the jamman solo xt onwards allow you to choose the track at which you are supposed to record on
Click to expand...

Nope, single track. You can record loops and save them into different preset patches, but none of the Jamman pedals are multitrack.
 
#16
Was just going through this same thing just last week, got a GAS bug for a looper...

Looking for advice from others it came down to the RC-30 or the Digitech Jam Man -I have zero experience of loopers and their individual capabilities so was taking the advice on either of these as a first step to see how useful it would actually be to me, as opposed to how useful I thought/everyone told me it would be. :)

Choice was made for me as I was on holiday in the UK at the time and the Digitech unit was on special offer in one of the shops I frequent when there, at 129.00 sterling (inc Tax), which is about 214.00 USD.
The guy in the shop mentioned that these were "the last ones they would be able to get" - so it may be that this particular model is going out of production (It's the Digitech Jam Man Stereo).

I have just got home so will be playing about and learning how to use the thing over the coming weeks -I hope -work permitting!

Haven't got into it yet but, from the destruction manual, the features on this version anyway include:

35 mins loop storage internally with 99 banks
Option to use an SDHC card up to 32GB to give an additional 99 banks and 16 hours worth of loop storage.
USB connection/software package PC and Mac
Aux Input (CD , MP3 etc)
Additional balanced XLR input
Rhythm Output to send your click track out
Optional footswitch
Stereo
Comes with power unit -apparently some don't and its an extra (?Boss)

Anyway, as I said, I as yet have no idea how useful or otherwise any of these things are nor what is missing that may be frustrating but we'll see as I get to know the thing!

Given my usual patience for effects and pedals, it may well appear in the classifieds in a couple of weeks! :)
 
#17
I bought a Boss RC-2 several years ago.

One of the most frustrating and challenging pedals I've ever had.

Basically (for me) it's a great practice and creative tool, but using live, or in my case, a few rehearsals, so far has been very challenging.

It's hard enough to match my own loops and phrasing with the tempo of a piece - sure if I wanted to take the time to tap tempo every time it would help, but that's quite a bit of extra work for each instance. Locking in with a drummer was a whole 'nuther layer of frustration.

I'm thinking for ambient pieces, and of course solo work, loopers have great potential. But for live use (meaning in a band with a drummer) it requires a level of commitment way above what I would get out it. YMMV etc etc etc.
 
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#19
I have an old Gibson Echoplex. Awesome rackmount machine, but I only use it at home. I have never run out of space for loops to add, but I'm sure there is a reasonable limit. There is a duration limit though. I want to say 98 seconds or something like that. Super easy to turn the different loops on and off while noodling too - it has a nice footboard. I want to say i dropped $500 on it a few years back.
 
#20
Thanks for all the info guys. It's proving helpful. And frustrating :). I may one day want to pair it with the beat buddy, but I also don't want to drop that kinda $$ for the midi compatibility. Also wanted to buy it on credit, so I have to pass on the ebay thing, and the boomerang that's up for grabs right here for a decent price. Seems my best choice thus far is going to be the boss, but I'm not quite ready to pull the trigger... I may even wait for the beat buddy, because I believe there's going to be tons of stuff I can and will want to do with that alone.

Another question, which I'm about to research, but thought you guys might be able to more quickly answer. I live in NY, and it's easy to make money busking here. Years ago you couldn't pay me enough to busk, but some of these guys are pulling in $15-$200 cash a sitting. For a few hours work. I'm inspired. Can 2 amps be hooked up any of these things? I have 2 roland cubes, and that could make for some really interesting stuff. I'm going to check on the Boss now, but if you guys know about the others.... I'd appreciate feedback. Thanks.
 
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