Do Imports Devalue The Domestic Model Basses?

[Smallmouth_Bass]

After the launch of Sterling by Music Man (SBMM), I no longer see any actual American Music Man basses in stores these days and it got me thinking: Do you think that either licensing the designs or creating an import model within the manufacturer's lineup devalues the "real thing"? Does having a lower cost model help the company get into a market that they were not privy to before or are people going to get the design they want at a better price and eschew the higher priced domestic model?

It is similar with other brands:
G&L Tribute
Lakland Skyline
Elrick Cort
Dingwall Combustion/NG
MTD Kingston

With the exception of maybe Squier/Fender and Epiphone/Gibson as they just pump those out like hot cakes.

 

[LowEndLobster]

I think import models do the opposite, and I also think that's by design/intentional. By developing and building out their import lines, those companies are able to move their domestic models upmarket while also making the brand as a whole more accessible. Before SBMM and OLP, you had to shell out over a grand for a Stingray. Now you can get a Stingray from SBMM for $300-350 new. It's not the same quality as the USA, but it's a Stingray, and you have tons of options upmarket from there. Same goes with all the other brands you listed.

 

[Warpeg]

I think import models do the opposite, and I also think that's by design/intentional. By developing and building out their import lines, those companies are able to move their domestic models upmarket while also making the brand as a whole more accessible. Before SBMM and OLP, you had to shell out over a grand for a Stingray. Now you can get a Stingray from SBMM for $300-350 new. It's not the same quality as the USA, but it's a Stingray, and you have tons of options upmarket from there. Same goes with all the other brands you listed.

Yep. This has been the model for a few decades. It’s simple, but successful.

 

[Smallmouth_Bass]

I think import models do the opposite, and I also think that's by design/intentional. By developing and building out their import lines, those companies are able to move their domestic models upmarket while also making the brand as a whole more accessible. Before SBMM and OLP, you had to shell out over a grand for a Stingray. Now you can get a Stingray from SBMM for $300-350 new. It's not the same quality as the USA, but it's a Stingray, and you have tons of options upmarket from there. Same goes with all the other brands you listed.

Then why do you never see the domestic models in the store anymore? Is it just that they don't move as many, so they are always special order? The retailers are not willing to stock the higher price models because it more initial layout for them?

 

[Smallmouth_Bass]

Or maybe they know the people that are going to buy a higher priced bass will just find it online...

 

[gln1955]

Then why do you never see the domestic models in the store anymore? Is it just that they don't move as many, so they are always special order? The retailers are not willing to stock the higher price models because it more initial layout for them?

Or maybe they know the people that are going to buy a higher priced bass will just find it online...

Yes to all.

 

[kodiakblair]

Does having a lower cost model help the company get into a market that they were not privy to before or are people going to get the design they want at a better price and eschew the higher priced domestic model?

Depends on the intention or goals.

Good few years back high end UK company Overwater hit a rough patch, their quality was top notch as always but the name had dropped out of conversation. They teamed up with another UK company, Tanglewood, to have a lower priced range produced in Asia. Realistic build budgets were allowed for and QC conditions set.

" Overwater by Tanglewood" was a success. Company profile was raised with the import line quietly retired after a few years.

 

[Smallmouth_Bass]

Depends on the intention or goals.

Good few years back high end UK company Overwater hit a rough patch, their quality was top notch as always but the name had dropped out of conversation. They teamed up with another UK company, Tanglewood, to have a lower priced range produced in Asia. Realistic build budgets were allowed for and QC conditions set.

" Overwater by Tanglewood" was a success. Company profile was raised with the import line quietly retired after a few years.

Sheldon Dingwall has often said that his import line saved the business. I don't think it is easy to be a small builder and make a decent living, even with prices being quite high.

 

[kodiakblair]

I don't think it is easy to be a small builder and make a decent living, even with prices being quite high.

Aye, the market for $3k basses is very small.

Even at $1.5k the market is limited. Sales of Squiers remain high yet FMIC dropped a shift at their Corona plant and the Mexico operation runs at capacity.

 

[hrodbert696]

I think it's basically the General Motors philosophy, where you sell someone a Chevy but hook them on the idea of someday getting the Cadillac.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

I think it's basically the General Motors philosophy, where you sell someone a Chevy but hook them on the idea of someday getting the Cadillac.

‘But GM would also design the lower priced autos with “irritating items” that would coerce buyers to buy a more expensive class of auto. The whole point of that was to increase the loan portfolio at GMAC Finance where the real profit is.

I’m not so sure musical instrument manufactures are quite that devious.

 

[IPA]

We all use import phones, trust import chips for everything from healthcare to traffic control, a lot of us drive foreign cars... The import vs domestic instrument stuff is a dated and flawed argument anyway.

 

[Warpeg]

Businesses want to make money. That is the bottom line and always will be. A simple truth is that these instrument makers are making more revenue on their lower-line units than their higher-line units. Arbitrarily speaking, let’s say company X makes only $100 profit on a low-line bass and $500 profit on a high-line bass. If X sells 10 low-line basses to 1 high-line bass, then the low-end is considerably more profitable. As others have stated, the high-line units are somewhat used as the hook. This business practice has been around a very long time and spans countless industries.

 

[definenredefine]

I think import models do the opposite, and I also think that's by design/intentional. By developing and building out their import lines, those companies are able to move their domestic models upmarket while also making the brand as a whole more accessible. Before SBMM and OLP, you had to shell out over a grand for a Stingray. Now you can get a Stingray from SBMM for $300-350 new. It's not the same quality as the USA, but it's a Stingray, and you have tons of options upmarket from there. Same goes with all the other brands you listed.

I suspect you're right, especially since you do so many bass reviews. Only thing that's kind of a bummer about this is that the mid-market American made instruments (eg Fender Highway One, Ernie Ball SUB) have gone away as well. It doesn't seem possible to get an American made instrument for less than 4 figures these days. Part of that is inflation, of course, but still.

...of course, it could just be that my idea of "mid market" is a bit dated.

We all use import phones, trust import chips for everything from healthcare to traffic control, a lot of us drive foreign cars... The import vs domestic instrument stuff is a dated and flawed argument anyway.

I agree with you, but I would say that it's less "import vs domestic" as it is Korea/Indonesia/China vs almost anywhere else these days. That's not to say that instruments made in those parts of Asia are bad. Far from it. Just that those countries do tend to produce more (most?) of the entry level and a lot of the mid market instruments these days.

 

[H K]

After the launch of Sterling by Music Man (SBMM), I no longer see any actual American Music Man basses in stores these days and it got me thinking: Do you think that either licensing the designs or creating an import model within the manufacturer's lineup devalues the "real thing"? Does having a lower cost model help the company get into a market that they were not privy to before or are people going to get the design they want at a better price and eschew the higher priced domestic model?

It is similar with other brands:
G&L Tribute
Lakland Skyline
Elrick Cort
Dingwall Combustion/NG
MTD Kingston

With the exception of maybe Squier/Fender and Epiphone/Gibson as they just pump those out like hot cakes.

You're on to something tbh. It feels like you see less and less of the "high end" models in the stores, and more and more of the budget ones. Which is understandable, as the budget ones move a lot faster. BUT, I feel like the stores used to keep more of the expensive ones in stock compared to now.

Then on the other hand, you have Rickenbacker, who cant even keep up with demand. Wether thats by design or not, I cant say, but they sure ain't introducing no budget line, and they are still coveted so. hmm

 

[definenredefine]

You're on to something tbh. It feels like you see less and less of the "high end" models in the stores, and more and more of the budget ones. Which is understandable, as the budget ones move a lot faster. BUT, I feel like the stores used to keep more of the expensive ones in stock compared to now.

Then on the other hand, you have Rickenbacker, who cant even keep up with demand. Wether thats by design or not, I cant say, but they sure ain't introducing no budget line, and they are still coveted so. hmm

...so much so that the older "lawsuit" Rick copies are pretty routinely listed for over $1000.

 

[ashtray]

PRS once said he would never offer an import version of his guitars. Then the SE line came out - but they were cheap $300 guitars, nothing compared to the company’s usual lineup of $2k+ USA models. But after a few years, they added more SE models and made them a bit nicer in the $500 price range, but “never with bird inlays like the USA models”. Then came the bird inlays. Then came the flame tops, and up came the prices.

Today they have import SE models selling for as much as $1,300 new. They also added a lower USA lineup (S2) which offers buyers a USA built model for a lower price than their “Core” models. That said, the prices of their Core models have gone up a bunch and I never see them in stores any more. The one local shop that carried PRS, only had SE’s and S2’s last time I went in. They could order me a Core with a deposit.

I’d say that PRS is doing rather well as a company with the inclusion of their SE line. You can definitely look at it from 2 directions - a ton of SE’s out there that look like the expensive USA models, so “why buy the $4k model when you can buy one that looks similar for $1k?”; or the prestige of owning a Core model over the import SE. And the quality of the Core is really much higher than the SE - but the SE’s are very playable and great “working” guitar.

When a company adds a cheaper import option of their guitars, they have to expect that some sales of the import will cut in to their USA production sales. And some companies may find a business model where they can support the company using the import line, and retain the USA line in a smaller quantity (and lower internal costs) as a flagship model.

 

[LBS-bass]

In the musical instrument business, big-ticket sales are a fairly small portion of the overall revenue stream, and not a particularly profitable one. You might make 20% profit on the sale of items over $1000, which for a bricks-and-mortar retailer is barely adequate for keeping the lights on and the employees paid. Less expensive items allow for a slightly better profit margin, but the real issue is price-resistance. Most people don't want to spend a lot of money if they believe they can get something that meets their needs for less.

Import lines serve the company by allowing them to capture more market share. If you can sell ten things to ten people at a cost of $300 each, you might be doing a bit better than trying (and failing) to sell one thing to one person for $3000. And that person who doesn't go for the expensive offering is still buying something you made rather than going to a competitor.

So it makes perfect sense that the majority of what you find in a store is going to be products that the store buyers believe they can quickly sell. Expensive guitars can hang on the wall for years - leading to devaluation when the next great thing comes out and people don't want to pay your asking price for what they now perceive as "new old stock." You see more SBMM because the store can sell more SBMM and they know that if someone really wants EBMM it can be ordered.

 

[Bass Viking]

I think it's basically the General Motors philosophy, where you sell someone a Chevy but hook them on the idea of someday getting the Cadillac.

Gateway drug.

 

[PennyroyalWe]

To me, as a consumer? Yes.

Why would I buy the “real deal” domestic if I can buy the import for 1/3-1/10 the price? If I could play them side by side, perhaps I’d see the justification for the expensive one…but I doubt it. Basses are pretty simple things, not much to really improve on/mess up, depending on which side of the price gap your looking from, unless it’s deliberate.