Do Imports Devalue The Domestic Model Basses?

[Arthur U. Poon]

I believe Stuart Spector established import lines sometime back in the 90’s. Since Korg bought the Spector brand they’ve slightly expanded the models within their import lines.

As much as I’d love to own a handcrafted U.S. model, I realize they’re priced well above my budget.

I’m very happy with Spector’s Euro Series basses. New, they’re priced at the top of my budget. I currently own two of them, and I’ll probably buy a couple more.

It seems the U.S. Spector shop is building basses at a pretty steady clip. Judging by the TB Spector Club Thread, and the handful of FB Spector Clubs that I belong to, the sales of new U.S. basses is pretty robust.

I don’t see Spector’s import line of basses are a detriment to the U.S. shop. I assume quite a few folks that own a U.S. model once owned an import model.

 

[Killing Floor]

The store where I worked had a reputation for catering to the working pro,

Yes. This is an exception. That working pro (or high roller amateur) will happily pay a small premium because they know they can count on the staff to take care of them. A GC or similar isn’t in that position. At least not with some markets. It isn’t “good or bad”, it’s a business decision.
But even though I live in a town with more than an abundance of great, high service boutique shops I’m not saying this because I’m jaded. Even in a smaller market like Omaha or Lubbock I could count on finding a good selection of Les Pauls and Teles because they sell more of them, the opportunity is higher with guitars.

Oh, and the other thing about your shop catering to pros, they’re not kicking rocks, they’re not going to the shop to see a Fodera unless they play to buy one.

 

[gln1955]

Right on the money.

When I was in instrument sales, it was the mid to late 90's and I was there just as the internet was becoming an important factor. It quickly became apparent that we could not compete with online sellers; the profit margins we needed to purchase and warehouse inventory and employ a staff and keep a showroom open were significantly higher than someone drop-shipping merchandise through an online portal would need. That 20% profit margin on big sales that we needed wasn't sustainable- to the chagrin of my managers I found my self more and more often price matching to 15% and even 10% over cost, and that is why many of our favorite stores no longer exist today- they couldn't pay the bills.

The store where I worked had a reputation for catering to the working pro, so we did make a habit of ordering in a few premium pieces here and there but, as I mentioned, it was not unusual for those things to hang on the wall for many years.

What people don't think about is the fact that those things have been bought and paid for and, in most cases, can't be returned to the manufacturer. When you see something in a store, there's already money sunk into it by the store that can only be recovered if the thing sells. Therefore, store buyers aren't in the habit of taking lots of chances on things they aren't certain can be quickly moved out of inventory.

The music shop closest to me was a working musician's go to place. They didn't have much in the way of boutique instruments, but always some USA Fenders, Stingrays, Gibsons and the like. The one high end bass I remember them having was a Custom Shop full relic Jaco fretless. The market for that in these parts was vanishingly small and it stayed in the shop for many years at full retail price. I'm sure every bass player in a fifty mile radius played that thing, so maybe it was worth it to the shop as a customer draw. Full relic, so it didn't matter if it got beat to crap.

Unfortunately, like so many indie music shops, it declined severely in recent years and is now liquidating inventory to go out of business.

 

[LBS-bass]

The music shop closest to me was a working musician's go to place. They didn't have much in the way of boutique instruments, but always some USA Fenders, Stingrays, Gibsons and the like. The one high end bass I remember them having was a Custom Shop full relic Jaco fretless. The market for that in these parts was vanishingly small and it stayed in the shop for many years at full retail price. I'm sure every bass player in a fifty mile radius played that thing, so maybe it was worth it to the shop as a customer draw. Full relic, so it didn't matter if it got beat to crap.

Unfortunately, like so many indie music shops, it declined severely in recent years and is now liquidating inventory to go out of business.

Yep, that's pretty much how it went at the place I worked. Most of our inventory was things we could move quickly and things we knew were in high demand, but our reputation was built on being the place where you could find that thing nobody else had, so we had a fair amount of that stuff around. Once you get past a certain price point, intuition about what you might be able to sell gets a little tricky, so we also had a few things that just hung on the wall for years waiting for the right buyer. That store went out of business several years ago.

 

[ebo]

Retail sales has become impossibly difficult. Starting with big box stores killing off the independents, and now online sales killing off the big box stores. No one wants to pay a penny more than they have to. Online markets have a much deeper customer base than a local store, and less overhead. Lower end gear hanging on a wall down the street from your house is almost an impulse buy at this point. I don’t envy any retailer in any product line. You have to stock what’ll sell, at a price point that’ll keep you in business.

 

[BadSanta1281]

Stocking the items that are most likely to sell quickly is a pretty good business model.

 

[TN WOODMAN]

We all use import phones, trust import chips for everything from healthcare to traffic control, a lot of us drive foreign cars... The import vs domestic instrument stuff is a dated and flawed argument anyway.

Agree fully. It seems buyers still want to “Buy American “ on musical instruments & motorcycles over any other product & hardly an issue on anything else.

Glock has been based in Smyrna Georgia for their US distribution since coming into the market place. They’ve started manufacturing some units there besides just assembling as before. Company swears exact machines & final quality no difference than their Austrian units.

My wife ordered me a G-29 I’d been wanting for Christmas this year & I frankly was hoping it was Austrian built, and it was.

 

[swarfrat]

Sheldon Dingwall has often said that his import line saved the business. I don't think it is easy to be a small builder and make a decent living, even with prices being quite high.

This. Just because we went to the moon 50 years ago doesn't mean everyone gets to go.

Theres a ton of "market realities" consigned to the history bins. Keeping the name afloat keeps the flagship afloat too.

Many of these names would just be gone for good without more affordable versions. I bet theres many times more $400 basses sold than $4k basses.

 

[perfektspace6]

I don't think imports devalue domestic models. Most players will never buy a U.S. made version of their instrument due to cost. Imports tap into a population that would otherwise not buy an instrument. Probably better profit margins on imports as well.

 

[Discount Bassy]

The US is and has been the world leader in outsourcing labor beginning with GE starting the trend in the late sixties using cheap Mexican labor to save on costs. I think the original question is defective on premise. If it wasn't for products manufactured overseas, there would be no domestic company to slap stickers on whatever shows up in the cargo containers. The companies need the cheap labor/minimal worker protections offered only in developing countries to prop up their stock portfolios and perceived value.

EDIT: If this counts as politics in an improper forum, feel free to delete this post.

 

[beatdatthang]

I think having a lower priced line is a genius idea. It gets your product into an affordable range for almost everyone and whets the appetite for the upscale models later on as financials allow.

As others have said, it’s just not in the interest of folks who want a premium bass to go to the local brick and mortar other than to “try one out”. Nobody buys high priced stuff from shops anymore, especially not basses. Why keep Ken Smiths and Foderas around that won’t sell when 95% of players play P or J basses anyway?

Shops keep an inventory aimed at beginners to intermediate players on a budget but having high priced basses not likely to sell just to be interest pieces isn’t financially smart. Most are also dealers who are happy to order that special, high priced bass for you (which you can usually just do yourself online but some people still like to go through dealers) and be your advocate for custom shop type orders especially for shops that only let you order through dealers.

If I were a shop owner, I wouldn’t keep any high priced basses in stock. It keeps people from asking to try out an expensive bass they have no intention of buying, especially with the current YouTube generation feeling like they need to demo every bass in the shop that they’re not gonna buy to get clicks on their channel. Keeping with the car analogy, the local Chevy dealer might have one Corvette on the lot, and they keep it in the showroom, and there’s no way they’re gonna let you test drive it unless they’re sure that you’re serious about buying it. They’re happy to order one for you, though!

 

[swarfrat]

I'm fine with imports, but I wish they would drop the HP (47 models within a $50 price span) model. Like, I couldn't even tell you what model line to just get a US built "Stratocaster". afaict there isn't really "a stratocaster" any more. I mean theres room for bridge, pickups, paint woods but... is it a player or a custom and is a custom the same thing as custom shop and can they call Mexico "American made" since it didn't specify The United States of America and they are in North America...

I'm good unless the robots unionize and quality drops to hand built levels.

 

[CK McLaughlin]

One thing to consider when considering domestic versus import is that some uniquely great basses from US-homed makers are only available as imports. To wit: Epiphone Jack Casady, Guild Starfires, Fender semi-hollows, almost all Gretsches, and many others. The only US-made alternatives would be expensive vintage instruments or custom shop builds.

 

[Relayer71]

I think import models do the opposite, and I also think that's by design/intentional. By developing and building out their import lines, those companies are able to move their domestic models upmarket while also making the brand as a whole more accessible. Before SBMM and OLP, you had to shell out over a grand for a Stingray. Now you can get a Stingray from SBMM for $300-350 new. It's not the same quality as the USA, but it's a Stingray, and you have tons of options upmarket from there. Same goes with all the other brands you listed.

Yep. The lower cost models are the gateway drugs.

In many cases, younger, or less affluent players will start off with the entry level model and then later, when they have more disposable income, upgrade to the higher end.

Obviously, doesn't always apply to age or income; those lower cost models can still hook a consumer and then when there's a good enough reason such as a milestone birthday, anniversary, promotion, etc., that consumer will spring for the top of the line.

And of course, lower cost import models are also perfectly fine for many, which is a good enough reason to exist.

 

[DJ Bebop]

I suspect you're right, especially since you do so many bass reviews. Only thing that's kind of a bummer about this is that the mid-market American made instruments (eg Fender Highway One, Ernie Ball SUB) have gone away as well. It doesn't seem possible to get an American made instrument for less than 4 figures these days. Part of that is inflation, of course, but still.

...of course, it could just be that my idea of "mid market" is a bit dated.


I agree with you, but I would say that it's less "import vs domestic" as it is Korea/Indonesia/China vs almost anywhere else these days. That's not to say that instruments made in those parts of Asia are bad. Far from it. Just that those countries do tend to produce more (most?) of the entry level and a lot of the mid market instruments these days.

Wages is the issue.
You can make a lot of stuff cheaper when your wage outlay is smaller. And you can make anything at the leave of quality you want by any human being in any place on the planet, but the quality is always dictated by the cooperation, IMHO

 

[Eddie Jones]

Then why do you never see the domestic models in the store anymore? Is it just that they don't move as many, so they are always special order? The retailers are not willing to stock the higher price models because it more initial layout for them?

Probably because for every $2,500.00 American bass they sell they can sell 5-6 imports. And the money made from mark-up is probably a lot more on the import lines. The American producers have to maintain competitiveness with all other brands in the same pricing arena.

 

[LBS-bass]

$2,500.00 American bass they sell they can sell 5-6 imports.

It's way worse than that. Probably 100 to 1. The expensive stuff sat in our shop for years while other inventory turned over regularly.

 

[DJ Bebop]

A friend of mine said he just bought a new Cadillac and asked me if I wanted to go for a ride in it. I said sure!

He pulled up in one of these.
I asked him, where is your new Cadillac?

 

[Roger W]

Used. Much like the automobile market. Some insist on new only . Others prefer letting the original owner enjoy the perks of newness & are happy to let them take the depreciation hit & enjoy the savings over new prices.

I’ve done both. I have instruments I bought new & others I found awesome deals on preowned, many modded with mods I approved of.

When I can, I choose the middle ground of a demonstration instrument. It normally will have a few scratches and dents, will be discounted, playability issues have been addressed, and it still has a warranty.

 

[jmattbassplaya]

Maybe I’m crazy, but if I am going to buy a $2k+ bass I sure as heck want to play it first. The idea of not carrying at least a couple US models of any particular brand seems nuts to me.