Do Imports Devalue The Domestic Model Basses?

[DJ Bebop]

Opening different price points for people to buy your products at gives you more customers spending money.

Yes
Can you say Sadowsky/Warwick
He still has his NYC shop still selling his in house made basses, yet he has his name attached to the German and Asian made ones but clearly these two things are not treated the same (through his shop)

Basses he makes in his shop hr deals with, outside of his shop, Warwick deals with.

 

[Bass Viking]

That stunt earned him a spot on my short list which basically meant my manager dealt with him, and that was never pretty if my manager was unhappy with you.

At least the manager had your back!

 

[LBS-bass]

The problem is that very rarely does the quality level of the U.S. line improve once the imports are introduced. It’s actually usually the opposite.

I won't argue this. But what I will add is that the ability of the average person to detect quality differences above a certain price point might be lacking, as well.

I own nine basses. The one that I play most often is, as luck would have it, an American made instrument that's one of the two most expensive I own. Now, I'm not saying I have some superior level of discernment, but when you have played a lot of instruments over the course of close to 50 years, you do get a feel for what you like and what you don't like, and you get a feel for all the intangibles that might be involved in superior craftsmanship.

There's a reason that bass is the one I reach for. It has to do with the way it feels when I play it - no other bass I own is as fitting under my fingers as that bass is. My second is a very inexpensive model, by comparison, that I would say feels almost as good, and it wasn't made in the US. But my #1 is what it is.

I don't favor it because it's American made, #1 could have ended up being anything. This one just feels the most right to me.

I know many people who wring great sound out of inexpensive instruments. I can do that if I need to, but I love my #1 because I own it and I'm lucky to have it. What I would say about that is this: It fights me less. I don't struggle with it to get what I need from it.

How much of that is superior craftsmanship versus dumb luck, I do not know. But I do believe there are a lot of people out there who would dismiss a high-quality instrument simply because they have not played enough instruments to really understand or even know what quality feels like.

 

[LBS-bass]

I guess this thread is just an observation that I've wanted to look at and try a Stingray Special (5) in person, but haven't seen one. But, I am not really in the market for one, so I have proven many of your points!

Good discussion everyone!

Yeah, sadly, it's the tire kickers and the online sales that have pretty much destroyed your chances of ever finding one in a store to play. In this day and age your best bet is to buy something online that you can return if you aren't happy with it. Showrooms don't actually exist anymore - they're just places where people will demo products they then buy elsewhere for the cheapest possible price. Can't sustain a business with that model.

 

[FRoss6788]

Yeah, sadly, it's the tire kickers and the online sales that have pretty much destroyed your chances of ever finding one in a store to play. In this day and age your best bet is to buy something online that you can return if you aren't happy with it. Showrooms don't actually exist anymore - they're just places where people will demo products they then buy elsewhere for the cheapest possible price. Can't sustain a business with that model.

"Showrooming", the worst.

I try, as much as is possible, to make all my purchases, whatever they may be, through "brick and mortar" businesses even if it costs a bit more because if we do not, that luxury will surely disappear.
Alas, it may already be too late.
Thanks Amazon...

 

[_Some Dude]

I think imports generally help domestic. Epiphone/Gibson USA/Gibson Custom. Squier/Fender MIM/MIA/Fender Custom. PRS SE/S2/Core/Artist/Private Stock.

IMO, getting an affordable entry level guitar in the hands of young players that looks like the expensive guitar their hero is using is a smart move, as is giving them multiple opportunities to spend more money as they move up the food chain.

By feeding the bottom end of the chain, you're developing future customers via brand loyalty.

 

[LBS-bass]

"Showrooming", the worst.

I try, as much as is possible, to make all my purchases, whatever they may be, through "brick and mortar" businesses even if it costs a bit more because if we do not, that luxury will surely disappear.
Alas, it may already be too late.
Thanks Amazon...

The only time recently that I shopped for an instrument and didn't buy from the store I demoed at was when I was looking for my Fender 5 string. I was ready to drop a decent chunk of change on this because I had seriously pressing needs, but I wanted to demo it first, so I went to the local independent store. I played what they had, which was nice, but sunburst was not the finish I wanted. I asked the salesman if he would be willing to negotiate price with me.

From my own rather extensive experience in MI sales, I know the correct answer to this question is always, "Of course." In fact, I'd been in there a couple of weeks prior with a locally well-known guitarist I worked with and the sales staff fawned all over both of us to give us the deepest possible discounts.

I can't remember which dismissive phrase the salesman used this time, but it was something along the lines of "it depends," or "maybe."

Unfortunately for that guy, I used to be in a band with the regional sales manager of Guitar Center so I just went online to their used site, picked out the one I wanted, and got my friend to handle the sale for me.

The moral of this story is this: The fact that someone looks like your grandmother is not a reason to underestimate their ability to screw you over. Be nice and fair to everyone and you will earn your commission.

 

[DJ Bebop]

We rented these once - it was 1988 and we were in the process of either house hunting or moving. I forget which exactly.

What I do remember is seats that felt every bit as luxurious as a Chevette. The car was a total turd.

 

[DJ Bebop]

"Showrooming", the worst.

I try, as much as is possible, to make all my purchases, whatever they may be, through "brick and mortar" businesses even if it costs a bit more because if we do not, that luxury will surely disappear.
Alas, it may already be too late.
Thanks Amazon...

I'm the same way. I try my local GC that is like 3 miles away first, giving them a chance. When I asked about something new I'm interested in trying and they say we don't have it but we can order it for you. I go home and order it from Sweetwater. Better overall return and free added in house warranty policy.

I do like their selection of used stuff and the fact they ship from store to store and if I don't like it, damaged or not as listed, I can leave it there.

 

[IamGroot]

I don't care where instruments are made. I care how they play. Its a global market.

 

[JohnnyChatter]

I own every version of the Stingray minus the one made for the Asian market and the Sub. I have no need for the made in America stuff. My Ray 34 is fantastic. Is it the same as its American brothers. Meh…Almost… But it’s not the same. I am probably wrong but I don’t think they are currently making the standard stingrays in the states. Just the specials and some other models. They are still pretty easy to find. I pick them up all the time for 1000. My pre ErnieBalls are super pricey and took me a minute to get and I paid at least 2500 and probably closer to 3500 minimum now. Why make something they made so many of and keep adding to the market. I’m sure in 10 years they will bring the American stingray “standard?” back. They are making the Sterling line cheaper I have noticed since Covid. I’m not sure I would buy one without expecting to change the crumby tuners out.

 

[Hawk256]

IMHO, the overall effect is artificially inflating the value of the domestic product. Just because it has a made in USA sticker the value of the item is magically increased. It's the same machines, likely the same bill of materials (for the most part) and the same techniques. For example in the 80's and 90's Peavey was not a well respected brand (not saying they aren't) but that was perception. Same goes with USA made Fenders in the 70's and 80's. Nobody really wanted one at the time and they were dirt cheap. Now those same basses are prized just because they were made in the US. Similar tactics work with modern instruments. Once we have an import model, the price of the US model actually goes up and a lot of people are willing to pay it.

As a side note, I have the last edition Peavey Cirrus that was made in Indonesia (not the BXP, those were pretty bad) and it compares to the US models in every way. I would venture to say a blind test couldn't tell the difference. I also have been looking at local custom made instruments and the quality is as good any luthier could do anywhere, at any price. County of origin doesn't mean much in todays world as far as quality potential. Any country is capable of making a great one or a bad one. It's up to manufacturing and quality control.

 

[Lonnybass]

In many cases, the import models allow the manufacturers to remain solvent producing US models.

 

[rashrader]

Devalue? Have you seen the price increases on domestically produced instruments over the last few years? They are only going to keep coming too.

 

[jamro217]

When you go to the music shop and see that $4000 name brand instrument that your hero plays and right next to it is the lesser light of the budget brand that looks identical, you are more likely to purchase the economical version of the real McCoy. Most players can't reasonably afford a high-end instrument right off the bat. They play the budget model until they can afford the real thing. Psyched, they get to the music shop and claim their dream bass, only to get it home and realize it's about the same as (or in some cases, worse) than the one they already have. $3000 down the drain! No problem. Put it in the classifieds. There is some other player just dreaming of getting that same bass as their hero plays... Ad infinitum.

 

[Michael Stanley 2112]

When you go to the music shop and see that $4000 name brand instrument that your hero plays and right next to it is the lesser light of the budget brand that looks identical, you are more likely to purchase the economical version of the real McCoy. Most players can't reasonably afford a high-end instrument right off the bat. They play the budget model until they can afford the real thing. Psyched, they get to the music shop and claim their dream bass, only to get it home and realize it's about the same as (or in some cases, worse) than the one they already have. $3000 down the drain! No problem. Put it in the classifieds. There is some other player just dreaming of getting that same bass as their hero plays... Ad infinitum.

Preach it, brother!

 

[rufus.K]

Value is subjective

 

[BazzaBass]

After the launch of Sterling by Music Man (SBMM), I no longer see any actual American Music Man basses in stores these days and it got me thinking: Do you think that either licensing the designs or creating an import model within the manufacturer's lineup devalues the "real thing"? Does having a lower cost model help the company get into a market that they were not privy to before or are people going to get the design they want at a better price and eschew the higher priced domestic model?

It is similar with other brands:
G&L Tribute
Lakland Skyline
Elrick Cort
Dingwall Combustion/NG
MTD Kingston

With the exception of maybe Squier/Fender and Epiphone/Gibson as they just pump those out like hot cakes.

What country are you in?

 

[makanudo]

a $2,700 Musicman Stingray Special 5 H, $2,350 American Ultra Jazz V or $2,300 Warwick pro corvette are going to take up space on the showroom as a demo model for people to try them out and get them second hand somewhere else and not move untill they are sold as floor model/lightly used. Or ordered online in their preffered finish/model.

Those spaces could instead be occupied by SBMM, Squier and Rockbass and actually sell.

 

[Levent]

We don't have any domestic mass produced basses here but many amazing luthiers with small outputs (1-2 instruments a month)
Some people bringing MTD's etc. here to sell reduced luthiers sales for sure but not value in the slightest because quality and price difference is appearent.