Do Schools Kill Creativity?

[MakiSupaStar]

There are too many factors to answer this with a blanket yes or no. Every school is different and within that every teacher is different. However, with things like No Child Left Behind and a general push for results on standardized state tests, I could see it getting harder and harder for teachers to encourage creativity in favor of teaching them how to performs well on the test.

 

[BassyBill]

I'd say discussing the issue and possible solutions is more creative than ignoring the problem

True enough. But there does seem to be a lot of hand-wringing about this in a variety of contexts, but not much concrete going on to address it. Did you watch the video in the OP?

 

[thudfromafar]

True enough. But there does seem to be a lot of hand-wringing about this in a variety of contexts, but not much concrete going on to address it. Did you watch the video in the OP?

No I didn't before, because I'm very confident in my stance on this subject matter.

I'm very thankful I just did watch it, though. This man is absolutely correct. We can only hope that he continues to speak and influence people.

This isn't a matter of putting something in a lab or writing an equation and saying "oh, well we have proof, the school system is bad." It's something that can only be discovered intuitively by experiencing the school system as a student, or by listening to other people (your friends, your kids, and so on). There may be no absolute mathematical proof that the school system stifles creativity.

But I know how poorly I have reacted to the school system, and I've been thinking about the problem my whole life as a completely honest, sincere, creative, passionate person. I am so passionate about this subject that I am enduring school so that I can become a teacher... I'm in my senior year of college and possibly have another 2 years after this for my masters. I also know a lot of people that feel the same way, and I know the highly questionable motives of many people at "the top." I have experienced firsthand how the current school system has worked tirelessly against me, rather than for me and with me. And the same goes for a vast amount of students -- and I have found these are the students who are honest. I also am always seeing better methods (by an extreme amount) for conducting education. They are clear to me. It may sound arrogant, but I can always easily spot which of my teachers are good at educating, and which are not.

For determining if the education system is working or not, we have to look at the world around us and at our potential future. Are we on track? No. Or perhaps we can even get to the facts: how important are arts programs in schools? Not nearly as important as others -- fact. Are artists and creative people valued and respected as much as businessmen and biologists? No, observable fact.

Education shapes society, so we must look at society to determine if our education is working. Our society is extremely unbalanced and prejudiced towards a narrow aspect of thought and behavior.

FWIW I have attended 5+ schools and have battled a severe psychological condition because I had it beat into me (and still do, even in college) that pretty much everything I do is wrong.

 

[MatticusMania]

You sound young, and like a full fledged idealist. I see that you plan on working in the school system in order to encourage creativity and all. I think its noble if not misguided. You do realize that once you are an educator it will be your purpose to educate your students on how to pass a standardized test, yes? Good luck on encouraging the creativity in between.

 

[()smoke()]

if something as insignificant as a school system kills your creativity, you didn't have much of it to begin with...if anything, it culls those who lack the motivation to see things through

...now, if the question was, 'can the school system be better at nurturing an environment of creativity or fostering a creative thinking process?' my answer is a resounding YES

 

[thudfromafar]

You sound young, and like a full fledged idealist. I see that you plan on working in the school system in order to encourage creativity and all. I think its noble if not misguided. You do realize that once you are an educator it will be your purpose to educate your students on how to pass a standardized test, yes? Good luck on encouraging the creativity in between.

Without idealists, the world would never have changed. People love to write things off as idealism now, but they dont realize that all the great people from history that they look up to were great idealists.

My purpose will absolutely NOT be to "educate my students on how to pass a standardized test." I 100% guarantee you I will never work such a job. If that ever becomes my order, I will simply find another place to work.

 

[BassyBill]

No I didn't before, because I'm very confident in my stance on this subject matter.

I'm very thankful I just did watch it, though. This man is absolutely correct. We can only hope that he continues to speak and influence people.

This isn't a matter of putting something in a lab or writing an equation and saying "oh, well we have proof, the school system is bad." It's something that can only be discovered intuitively by experiencing the school system as a student, or by listening to other people (your friends, your kids, and so on). There may be no absolute mathematical proof that the school system stifles creativity.

But I know how poorly I have reacted to the school system, and I've been thinking about the problem my whole life as a completely honest, sincere, creative, passionate person. I am so passionate about this subject that I am enduring school so that I can become a teacher... I'm in my senior year of college and possibly have another 2 years after this for my masters. I also know a lot of people that feel the same way, and I know the highly questionable motives of many people at "the top." I have experienced firsthand how the current school system has worked tirelessly against me, rather than for me and with me. And the same goes for a vast amount of students -- and I have found these are the students who are honest. I also am always seeing better methods (by an extreme amount) for conducting education. They are clear to me. It may sound arrogant, but I can always easily spot which of my teachers are good at educating, and which are not.

For determining if the education system is working or not, we have to look at the world around us and at our potential future. Are we on track? No. Or perhaps we can even get to the facts: how important are arts programs in schools? Not nearly as important as others -- fact. Are artists and creative people valued and respected as much as businessmen and biologists? No, observable fact.

Education shapes society, so we must look at society to determine if our education is working. Our society is extremely unbalanced and prejudiced towards a narrow aspect of thought and behavior.

FWIW I have attended 5+ schools and have battled a severe psychological condition because I had it beat into me (and still do, even in college) that pretty much everything I do is wrong.

You make some interesting comments there and I can agree with a good part of what you're saying. But don't forget businessmen and biologists are creative too, ya know. Creativity isn't a synonym for artistic pursuits, nor is it confined to them. This limited view of creativity as being the province of "arty" people only is a major part of the problem we're talking about; it's effectively stifling creativity in people who want to study other things.

Anyway, everybody (or nearly everybody, in many different countries) experiences school as a student. And what they experience is usually a range of teaching, from good to poor. Maki had it right when he said that sometimes curriculum issues force schools and teachers into playing safe in order to cover their backs as far as formalised data on performance goes. The solution would involve making teaching an attractive career to as many talented people as possible and then letting them do their job. This has been true for years, but political meddling with schools has increased rather than decreased and this is a big part of the problem.

Like I said, lots of handwringing - which I understand entirely - but I don't see many signs of change in the immediate future.

By the way, hang on to that idealism, it's an essential quality for any teacher, as is a healthy dose of realism with which to balance it. I say this to my students at all stages of their courses (I train teachers as my day job).

 

[thudfromafar]

But don't forget businessmen and biologists are creative too, ya know. Creativity isn't a synonym for artistic pursuits, not is it confined to them.

Oh, certainly agreed.

By the way, hang on to that idealism, it's essential - as is a healthy dose of realism with which to balance it. I say this to my students at all stages of their courses (I train teachers as my day job).

That too I try with the realism...

Sounds like a cool job. Thanks for your service.

 

[MatticusMania]

My purpose will absolutely NOT be to "educate my students on how to pass a standardized test." I 100% guarantee you I will never work such a job. If that ever becomes my order, I will simply find another place to work.

You probably shouldnt become a teacher then...

Without idealists, the world would never have changed. People love to write things off as idealism now, but they dont realize that all the great people from history that they look up to were great idealists.

Ive spoken to too many people who think they can change the world. All of them have failed. I think the effort is noble, really I do, but its a wasted cause. There is a higher power that no individual can take on. Even a united front would create a chip in the concrete wall. $$$ isnt just the root of all evil, its the root of all things. We live in a world where evil abounds. It might sound fatalistic, but there is nothing you can do.


Anyways, don't let me discourage you, thats not my intent. You gotta get served that realism someway or another, just consider this a spoonful.

 

[thudfromafar]

You probably shouldnt become a teacher then...

Look, even in the generally crappy school system of today, there are plenty of examples of teachers doing more than just "teaching people to pass a standardized test." You're just wrong about that one. Plus, I'm teaching music.

Ive spoken to too many people who think they can change the world. All of them have failed. I think the effort is noble, really I do, but its a wasted cause. There is a higher power that no individual can take on. Even a united front would create a chip in the concrete wall. $$$ isnt just the root of all evil, its the root of all things. We live in a world where evil abounds. It might sound fatalistic, but there is nothing you can do.


Anyways, don't let me discourage you, thats not my intent. You gotta get served that realism someway or another, just consider this a spoonful.

Go open a history book. A lot of people have changed the world on a massive scale. And more people have changed the world modestly. And then -- a lot of good people have changed the world for simply a small group of people, or maybe just one person. And that's better than nothing. Your opinion is fine and may be based on some experience but certainly not conclusive.

Don't worry, you're not discouraging me from becoming a teacher, or serving me any "reality" that I haven't already been served.

Here's the thing about reality, it changes.



...I mean... does anyone disagree with what the guy is saying in the video?

 

[i_got_a_mohawk]

You make some interesting comments there and I can agree with a good part of what you're saying. But don't forget businessmen and biologists are creative too, ya know. Creativity isn't a synonym for artistic pursuits, not is it confined to them. This limited view of creativity as being the province of "arty" people only is a major part of the problem we're talking about; it's effectively stifling creativity in people who want to study other things.

+1

As someone who works in research day in and day out, without creativity, I'd be out the job (well, studentship).

 

[basstotheface]

You're just wrong about that one. Plus, I'm teaching music.

My band teacher has certainly done what you've said you wanted to do. Trust me as a student in this day and age, where I really don't get to do much in school creative wise, a good music teacher can be so great.

 

[fdeck]

I don't think that schools affect creativity one way or another. Schools are faced with many of the dilemmas of raising kids. Virtually all kids develop their intelligence and learning capacity before developing enough attention span and self discipline to really learn anything.

If you leave kids to their own devices, they become Blobs. Creative blobs are pretty much ensured of being miserable for the rest of their lives -- frustrated that they are so creative but that nobody will give their ideas a chance.

An alternative is to provide kids with the discipline and continuity of effort that they can't provide to themselves. In other words: Rules and schedules. Without this discipline, kids have no hope of learning subjects such as math or classical music.

Schools could simply focus on doing what they have a chance at doing well, for instance teaching the knowledge and skills that will enable creative people to do something constructive with their creativity later on.

 

[mike_v_s]

if something as insignificant as a school system kills your creativity, you didn't have much of it to begin with...if anything, it culls those who lack the motivation to see things through

This is an interesting point.

But don't forget businessmen and biologists are creative too, ya know. Creativity isn't a synonym for artistic pursuits, not is it confined to them. This limited view of creativity as being the province of "arty" people only is a major part of the problem we're talking about; it's effectively stifling creativity in people who want to study other things.

(my bolding) Thank you. The way some of this thread reads, you'd think my 9-5 job shackles me with the chains of corporate servitude after my mandatory lobotomy. Limited thinking, oddly.

Mike

 

[SJLee]

The need to be constantly stimulated and entertained kills creativity.

 

[theNoseBleedKid]

I imagine that all depends on how you look at it. I wouldn't call encouraging regular attendence at school "corporate BS", I'd call it trying to clarify a correlation between attendence and grades to someone that thinks there is a larger conspiracy to crush their creativity.

Mike

I think the sentiment that school is everything, that it is the be all and end all of a student's existence is a misleading, harsh and unfair basis for discipline, as well as a conditioning tool.

a general push for results on standardized state tests, I could see it getting harder and harder for teachers to encourage creativity in favor of teaching them how to performs well on the test.

(claps)

The way some of this thread reads, you'd think my 9-5 job shackles me with the chains of corporate servitude after my mandatory lobotomy.

A tad excessive, at the least, I'd say. I haven't seen anyone attacking business men or people who work a variety of jobs beyond one problem with 'corporate' aspects of a school.

 

[theNoseBleedKid]

The need to be constantly stimulated and entertained kills creativity.

The in ability of people to challenge (intellectually) and force students into difficult and awkward places (intellectually) only hinder overcoming short attention spans.

 

[SJLee]

Agreed.

 

[jp58]

Since I've been in college, there is a different kind of teaching that happens. It is (generally) more discussion based where you are understood to do the work before class. Students, for the most part, show up with all their work done, and class runs smoothly. Oh yeah, and the university has music and art programs.

I like this system a lot better than high school, and discussion/labs/projects tend to allow you to be a lot more creative than generic HS homework.

 

[i_got_a_mohawk]

Since I've been in college, there is a different kind of teaching that happens. It is (generally) more discussion based where you are understood to do the work before class. Students, for the most part, show up with all their work done, and class runs smoothly. Oh yeah, and the university has music and art programs.

I like this system a lot better than high school, and discussion/labs/projects tend to allow you to be a lot more creative than generic HS homework.

I don't think your average high school student has the maturity to be prepared like that.