Do Schools Kill Creativity?

[MakiSupaStar]

It's pretty funny. When I first went into teaching, I thought that I was going to be the teacher that would encourage creativity. But after a short while, I realized that most kids aren't motivated to be creative, because there's no extra incentive, award, or benefit for being extra creative. If a child meets all the requirements of an assignment, and perhaps a little extra (forethought, planning, insight, etc) then that child scores well, creative or not. Say a child meets all the requirements of an assignment, and perhaps that same extra (forethought, planning, insight, etc) with a nice creative approach. He'll definitely get kudos and compliments from me, but beyond that he doesn't get an extra credit. Instead, what I found to be more beneficial (at least to my students) is teaching them how to identify, approach, and solve problems. This is a skill that could directly transfer into success, no matter what field they go into.

 

[mike_v_s]

I think the sentiment that school is everything, that it is the be all and end all of a student's existence is a misleading, harsh and unfair basis for discipline, as well as a conditioning tool.

You must have missed my point. A school's purpose is education. While the manner in which that should be dispensed certainly open for debate, it is in the school's best interest to treat all of the students (even the super musically talented ones with great grades) the same way for the same type action.

Mike

 

[i_got_a_mohawk]

You must have missed my point. A school's purpose is education. While the manner in which that should be dispensed certainly open for debate, it is in the school's best interest to treat all of the students (even the super musically talented ones with great grades) the same way for the same type action.

Mike

I think he is meaning more how students end up percieving school. Over here at least it was beaten down onto us that you needed to get good grades to be a worthwhile human being

 

[mike_v_s]

A tad excessive, at the least, I'd say. I haven't seen anyone attacking business men or people who work a variety of jobs beyond one problem with 'corporate' aspects of a school.

Well, my quote was in direct response to one of bassybill's about the imagination that exists in jobs outside of the traditional music, art, etc. fields that are being used to represent creativity. Context helps.

Mike

 

[mike_v_s]

I think he is meaning more how students end up percieving school. Over here at least it was beaten down onto us that you needed to get good grades to be a worthwhile human being

Possibly, but the statement he quoted was addressing a specific situation and what I considered a possible justification for it. As for the importance of grades, there may be a better way to get the message across, but I'm betting statistics might not support the notion that grades aren't too big a deal. Furthermore, I'm not sure an alternative school system could be developed where a greater percentage of the students came away really happy with attending while still maintaining or increasing any measurment of success for graduates. I'd have LOVED to attend Ales and Lagers for 5th period, but it honestly wouldn't have prepared me for squat in the current job market.

Mike

 

[jp58]

I don't think your average high school student has the maturity to be prepared like that.

While you're probably right, I wasn't the average student. And there was no "above the curve" option. Everyone takes the same classes no matter how smart you are. You get either regular or honors and that's about it.

 

[i_got_a_mohawk]

Possibly, but the statement he quoted was addressing a specific situation and what I considered a possible justification for it. As for the importance of grades, there may be a better way to get the message across, but I'm betting statistics might not support the notion that grades aren't too big a deal. Furthermore, I'm not sure an alternative school system could be developed where a greater percentage of the students came away really happy with attending while still maintaining or increasing any measurment of success for graduates. I'd have LOVED to attend Ales and Lagers for 5th period, but it honestly wouldn't have prepared me for squat in the current job market.

Mike

They are important, but the pressure you are put under at school is pretty crazy. The "THIS DETERMINES YOUR LIFE" approach taken (at least over here) is a bit OTT.

While you're probably right, I wasn't the average student. And there was no "above the curve" option. Everyone takes the same classes no matter how smart you are. You get either regular or honors and that's about it.

See, your school needed the system mine used. You stick all the brightest kids in the same class as the dumbest kids and it all averages out

Well, at least in the earlier years, in later years things did seperate into different levels.

 

[sloasdaylight]

..s..ex..

Mike

Link Removed

 

[mike_v_s]

Link Removed

Clever, eh? With a public school education, no less.

Mike

 

[sloasdaylight]

Clever, eh? With a public school education, no less.

Mike

I almost didn't pick up on it.

 

[funkydjembe]

IMO it's "teachers" who kill creativity. I was lucky to have many "natural born" teachers in my life, teachers who burn for the satisfaction of seeing a person who does their best. These same teachers are creative themselves, they don't need a book and they don't do it just for the money, they also do it for love. Good teachers are just great!

 

[hrodbert696]

Haven't watched the vid yet, but my feeling is that, ironically, schools kill creativity most by trying too hard to cultivate it. When things are very loose and freeform and "do your own thing," as often seems to be the case, the students don't really learn the skills to create. Beyond that, a lot of creativity comes as a reaction against structure. Schools with loose structure end up giving kids nothing to react to.

 

[MatticusMania]

Haven't watched the vid yet, but my feeling is that, ironically, schools kill creativity most by trying too hard to cultivate it. When things are very loose and freeform and "do your own thing," as often seems to be the case, the students don't really learn the skills to create. Beyond that, a lot of creativity comes as a reaction against structure. Schools with loose structure end up giving kids nothing to react to.

What schools have you been going to?

"schools kill creativity most by trying too hard to cultivate it"

Ive never seen a school try to cultivate creativity, its a schools duty to get kids to accept conformity.

"things are very loose and freeform and "do your own thing," as often seems to be the case"

Ive never been to a school that was freeform and 'do your own thing'.

"Beyond that, a lot of creativity comes as a reaction against structure."

This I can agree with but I havent attended a school that with a loose structure, theyre run like prisons with an emphasis on passing standardized tests.

 

[L-A]

Originally posted by L-A

...

Well, my quote was in direct response to one of bassybill's about the imagination that exists in jobs outside of the traditional music, art, etc. fields that are being used to represent creativity. Context helps.

Mike

Are you talking to me?

 

[guitarchaser]

My high school art teacher killed my creativity. For me art is about expressing things MY way, not having some teacher take the paintbrush/pencil/pen/etc. from you and 'adding' to your picture.

Teacher I had took the paintbrush from me to change one bit of a painting I was doing, I'd change it back and he'd come and change it again, I'd change it again, he'd come back and persist on taking the brush and doing the exact thing I didn't want. This happened about four times. Advise me, don't try and take over.

My painting, my mistake if I've done it wrong but I'd be happy with how it turned out because it would be my own work.

The same teacher ended up having an argument with another art teacher about some printing that'd I'd done (one teacher took the main part of the class and art history, another ceramics, another ink printing) but luckily the teacher I'd done the printing with defended my work.

For creative stuff, art was the only subject I really cared about at highschool and that teacher just ruined it for me.

 

[theNoseBleedKid]

Grades weren't really what I was getting at, more an overall mindset that's part of the schooling.

Furthermore, I'm not sure an alternative school system could be developed where a greater percentage of the students came away really happy with attending while still maintaining or increasing any measurment of success for graduates. I'd have LOVED to attend Ales and Lagers for 5th period, but it honestly wouldn't have prepared me for squat in the current job market.

I don't understand this point.

I'll attempt to re-iterate my point. High school, in particular, has a tendency to overstate its own importance. Now, I'm not saying HS isn't important, that people don't learn or that it's a waste of time. What I am saying is that when you're in school 5 days a week (doing school work on the weekends) living, breathing and existing purely within a high school paradigm many, many teachers/administrators/parents encourage the attitude that your life and your future are ENTIRELY dependent on high school.

Now, I can certainly understand why that attitude exists: there's certainly a tangible benefit for any person in having a high quality formal education, and applying themselves to that education. But, I'm not convinced that encouraging students to view high school as the be all and end all isn't a little bit over the top.

I know students with depression, self induced sicknesses, mental strain, stress, anxiety, suicidal thoughts, etc, etc. Most of the people I know, in that situation, are directly reacting to the pressure that, without succeeding (being THE BEST) in high school, their life is 'over', in some sense.

I'm sure you'd agree that high school is only a single place to learn and evolve, and there are many other paths to happiness and success beyond that institution.

 

[mike_v_s]

Are you talking to me?

No, but that's the second time I've quoted someone and another's name has appeared.

Mike

 

[mike_v_s]

I'll attempt to re-iterate my point. High school, in particular, has a tendency to overstate its own importance. Now, I'm not saying HS isn't important, that people don't learn or that it's a waste of time. What I am saying is that when you're in school 5 days a week (doing school work on the weekends) living, breathing and existing purely within a high school paradigm many, many teachers/administrators/parents encourage the attitude that your life and your future are ENTIRELY dependent on high school.

how many highschool dropouts do you know? What percentage are they of all the people you know? How old are they? How does their current station in life and satisfaction with that station compare to the others you know that have finished highschool and perhaps even college? How many of those people do you know? Their ages?

Now, I can certainly understand why that attitude exists: there's certainly a tangible benefit for any person in having a high quality formal education, and applying themselves to that education. But, I'm not convinced that encouraging students to view high school as the be all and end all isn't a little bit over the top.

Considering that tangible benefit, do you have something else that should be put in place of a quality formal education?

I know students with depression, self induced sicknesses, mental strain, stress, anxiety, suicidal thoughts, etc, etc. Most of the people I know, in that situation, are directly reacting to the pressure that, without succeeding (being THE BEST) in high school, their life is 'over', in some sense.

Sounds like a reality check is in order, but I don't see a problem with stressing the importance of school. Before we go blaming highschool for all of this, however, I think it would be a good idea to get a mental health professional to evaluate these students. Pressure to succeed caused Emilio Estevez to tape a kid's buttcheeks together in The Breakfast Club, but I doubt it's the catch-all for everything wrong with all of the students you know.

I'm sure you'd agree that high school is only a single place to learn and evolve, and there are many other paths to happiness and success beyond that institution.

Not so quick. I'd agree that there are many paths to happiness (see my aformentioned Ales and Lagers course), but very few paths to success in today's society without a highschool education.

Mike

 

[jmattbassplaya]

....

I know students with depression, self induced sicknesses, mental strain, stress, anxiety, suicidal thoughts, etc, etc. Most of the people I know, in that situation, are directly reacting to the pressure that, without succeeding (being THE BEST) in high school, their life is 'over', in some sense.

I'm sure you'd agree that high school is only a single place to learn and evolve, and there are many other paths to happiness and success beyond that institution.

I have to agree. In my hometown (although it's been like this is many other places for years) they are beginning to implement trimesters, instead of the traditional two semester year, and thus are extended the school year and workload.

While I understand the benefits, it to me just seems like way too much school. Kids should be able to be kids and not worry about "life" every minute of their day, they should be able to make mistakes, and they should be able to pursue other things in life that interest them outside of academia.

 

[MIJ-VI]

I don't know the circumstances (no need to spell them out), but I imagine a school wouldn't want to get in a situation where they treated one student who missed a day unnecessarily differently than another. Encouraging one student to pursue his dream of music by missing some class and discouraging another who is maybe not as good a student requires making a judgement call about a student's likelihood of succes at the chosen extracuricular..a judgement call they simply aren't qualified to make and certainly not one their attorney would approve of.

That's been their advertised intent since I wore my first one in 1983. It's decently effective, too. That aside, well-to-do people will be well-to-do no matter what you make them wear and that fact isn't lost on anyone in school. Additionally, people who recognize academic achievements will do so no matter what you're wearing, as well. Relax.

Mike

Mike

Yes...

...and I'm relaxed enough to sign my post once.

Gary