Do Warwick/Spector really have a unique sound?

[Alexander]

Going back to your original question Nick - all basses certainly do not sound the same, however it seems to me if you want a good growly tone there are a number of options. I use my Fender Jazz bass and G&L Tribute L-2500 to get growl. The Jazz is open, clear and musical sounding, but can get rather nasty sounding too, if need be. The G&L is very very aggressive. Many people use Warwicks to get a growly tone and I think that tone can be had, but find Warwicks to be (comparatively) darker, less open sounding with brittle highs. There are certainly other basses out there than can do this as well (I saw a bass player on TV last night playing what I think was an F-Bass and he had growl for days!). So, I guess I'm saying the bass is only one piece of the "growl" equation and Warwick\Spector are not the only options.

Amps and effects play a big role here as well - tha SABDDI is an integral part of my signal chain and through it's "presence" AND "drive" controls can get more than enough growl for anything I have ever needed. Parametric EQs can play a role in that as well - I heard that boosting at 800hz adds growl and that is about right (though I personally like a smoother sounding mid boost @ 400hz). Most overdrive pedals produce buzz moreso than growl (IMHO) and I tend to stay away from them.

Technique is another component of getting the "growl" - playing aggressive fingerstyle or pickstyle closer to the bridge has some impact.

So, there are a number of factors. When I first started out, I wanted that Warwick growly tone - the bass tone I heard on the first Edwin McCain record blew my mind. Needless to say, I have yet to even come close to replicating that and I learned long ago that there was a lot more to it than buying a Warwick. In general, I agree with some of the other posts. Find YOUR tone. It may take a while, but once you have it, you'll own it...

 

[jive1]

Here's something else to need to consider: if you're trying to nick the tone of a recording, you'll have to know if it was recorded directly through the board, did they mic an amp, or both. There are all kinds of varibles, that have nothing to do with the bass or amp to think about when trying to cop a specific tone from a record.

Another thing to consider is whether or not that particular bassist actually used a specific bass on a recording. A bassist's touring bass may not be the person's bass for recording. Many times a producer will rent a particular guitar/bass for a recording session. There is a possibility that Kroger might not have played a Spector/Warwick/whatever.

What the guy plays on a music video, concert, or photgraph is not necessarily the bass that the guy records with. Same goes for the rig.

This is something I found on Andrew's Musician Resources:
Many guitar fans want to emulate their rock star idols by buying the same equipment their idols endorced. But unless you read interviews of people who were actually there when those rock stars made their famous recordings, you won't know what equipment was actually used. For example: fans of Jimi Hendrix buy Fender Stratocasters and Marshall amps, but Hendrix actually made his most famous recordings with Gibson and Hofner and Epiphone and Gretsch guitars into Silvertone and Burns and Fender amps, for live performancs Hendrix used solid state "fuzz" pedals into "clean" Marshall amps; fans of Jimmy Page buy Gibson Les Paul guitars and Marshall amps, but he made his most famous recordings with Fender Telecaster and Danelectro guitars into small "practice" Fender Champ amps; B.B. King made some of his most famous recordings with Fender Telecasters; Mark Knopfler recorded with guitars by Pensa; Stevie Ray Vaughn's "main" recording guitar was built by James Hamilton with EMG pickups, and he also used Gibson guitars with a Silvertone amp and a Fender Vibroverb amp with an Ibanez TS-9 pedal, the amps he recorded with are considerably less expensive than the Dumble amp and beat up guitars he toured with and used in videos and photos; the guitarist for U2 uses a wide variety of guitars such as Gibson, Rickenbaker, Fender, etc., but no matter what he uses he still sounds like him and nobody can differentiate which guitar was used on his recordings, not even him; Slash, was the famous "Gibson" guitarist for Guns 'N Roses, but his guitar was actually a replica guitar built by an independent luthier who didn't even work for Gibson; Kurt Cobain appeared on stage with a Marshall amp that wasn't even plugged in, the cabinets were empty so he could more easily shove his guitar neck through the cloth when he "trashed" his equipment at the end of his concerts, he actually used an Ibanez TS-9 and SansAmp into the PA; some rock stars have used such a wide variety of guitars and amps that even they can't remember what they've used. Some people pretend to be connoisseurs of amp "tone" and speak revently of "tube tone", without realizing that their idols used solid state effects pedals like the Ibanez TS-9 and their amps "clean." It's amusing to see people spend lots of money collecting equipment to emulate their idols, but all the while they've had no idea what equipment their idols actually used. Some people want to emulate their idols like tribute bands do and they try to adopt their identities from their posessions; they say things like "I'm not a Fender-man, I'm more of a Gibson-man", all the while they're completely mistaken about what their idols actually used.


If you want to read the rest of it, here's the link:
http://www.anycities.com/andyhifi/musicians.htm

 

[phxlbrmpf]

Does anyone else think Spectors sound pretty bright and focussesd? Just think of the bass tone on some Dog Eat Dog records (I know, I know.) I would say a tone like that is pretty hard to nail with any other bass. Flea, too, sounded pretty thin at times during his Spector days.

 

[Rumzini]

Another thing to consider is whether or not that particular bassist actually used a specific bass on a recording. A bassist's touring bass may not be the person's bass for recording. Many times a producer will rent a particular guitar/bass for a recording session. There is a possibility that Kroger might not have played a Spector/Warwick/whatever.

What the guy plays on a music video, concert, or photgraph is not necessarily the bass that the guy records with. Same goes for the rig.

This is something I found on Andrew's Musician Resources:
Many guitar fans want to emulate their rock star idols by buying the same equipment their idols endorced. But unless you read interviews of people who were actually there when those rock stars made their famous recordings, you won't know what equipment was actually used. For example: fans of Jimi Hendrix buy Fender Stratocasters and Marshall amps, but Hendrix actually made his most famous recordings with Gibson and Hofner and Epiphone and Gretsch guitars into Silvertone and Burns and Fender amps, for live performancs Hendrix used solid state "fuzz" pedals into "clean" Marshall amps; fans of Jimmy Page buy Gibson Les Paul guitars and Marshall amps, but he made his most famous recordings with Fender Telecaster and Danelectro guitars into small "practice" Fender Champ amps; B.B. King made some of his most famous recordings with Fender Telecasters; Mark Knopfler recorded with guitars by Pensa; Stevie Ray Vaughn's "main" recording guitar was built by James Hamilton with EMG pickups, and he also used Gibson guitars with a Silvertone amp and a Fender Vibroverb amp with an Ibanez TS-9 pedal, the amps he recorded with are considerably less expensive than the Dumble amp and beat up guitars he toured with and used in videos and photos; the guitarist for U2 uses a wide variety of guitars such as Gibson, Rickenbaker, Fender, etc., but no matter what he uses he still sounds like him and nobody can differentiate which guitar was used on his recordings, not even him; Slash, was the famous "Gibson" guitarist for Guns 'N Roses, but his guitar was actually a replica guitar built by an independent luthier who didn't even work for Gibson; Kurt Cobain appeared on stage with a Marshall amp that wasn't even plugged in, the cabinets were empty so he could more easily shove his guitar neck through the cloth when he "trashed" his equipment at the end of his concerts, he actually used an Ibanez TS-9 and SansAmp into the PA; some rock stars have used such a wide variety of guitars and amps that even they can't remember what they've used. Some people pretend to be connoisseurs of amp "tone" and speak revently of "tube tone", without realizing that their idols used solid state effects pedals like the Ibanez TS-9 and their amps "clean." It's amusing to see people spend lots of money collecting equipment to emulate their idols, but all the while they've had no idea what equipment their idols actually used. Some people want to emulate their idols like tribute bands do and they try to adopt their identities from their posessions; they say things like "I'm not a Fender-man, I'm more of a Gibson-man", all the while they're completely mistaken about what their idols actually used.


If you want to read the rest of it, here's the link:
http://www.anycities.com/andyhifi/musicians.htm

Probably one of the most enlightening things I've ever read. So...just so that I have it straight....

Lets define growl...would a good dfinition be when Tim Commerford goes into that overdriven sound he keeps so secret on the Audioslave cd? How about when I crank the tube gain on my old Peavy pre...is that considered growl? How would you get it from just your bass guitar? These may seem stupid questions but inquiring minds want to know.

 

[Halftooth]

I think that the Sansamp adds quite a bit to the sound that you're looking for regardless of whether it's a Warwick or Spector. The Sansamp, IMO, has a character overdriven growl that is hard to replace with any other bass and effects unit.

 

[5stringDNA]

Does anyone else think Spectors sound pretty bright and focussesd? Just think of the bass tone on some Dog Eat Dog records (I know, I know.) I would say a tone like that is pretty hard to nail with any other bass. Flea, too, sounded pretty thin at times during his Spector days.

Bright an focused? yes
Thin? you gotta be kidding- one of the main things that makes Spector tone desirable for many is it's fat, yet clean growl. while clean and growl may sound contradictory, it is ahrd to describe a sound in words. None-the-less, the tone is a very full one. Thin tone would be a low-quality jazz bass.

 

[tommixx]

This will probably surprise and even P!!S some people off but I make my living primarily as a recording engineer and Bassist and I will tell you what I tell most people that come in to a session.....(I hear this from all musicians be they Bassists, Guitarists, Drummers, Sax players ....etc....etc. you name it!)

I want this line to sound like Will Lee, Give me that Will Lee tone...

OK, go and hire Will Lee for the session!!

Give me that ____________(insert name here) tone....

OK go hire _______________(insert name here) for the session!

What we all have to realize is the you can approxiamate anything you want but I GUARANTEE that you will NEVER know how EXACTLY ____________gets their tone in the studio.

This is the SECRET ingredient that keeps in demand engineers working....sometimes I am not even sure myself what recipe I used to get what......BUT it is ALWAYS a combination of the things I can do with really cheap to REALLY expensive gear (50%) and the players input, feel, touch, fingers, grip, sweat, blood, vibe, voodoo, mojo, and all the other things that go into playing an instrument (50% sometimes MUCH more)....these are things you can NOT quantify or buy at ANY price...

JIVE1 is EXACTLY right in his post...that is the reality of it all....

If I played James Jamerson's Bass of doom from the exact Transcriptions of a single piece of work spot on and technically perfect it will not sound the same as James playing it because our feel is different, the texture of our skin on the strings is different, these minute things ALL add up and create a SOUND...By the same token you could give Eddie Van Halen all of Jimmie's original gear and give him a month to learn every nuance of Purple Haze and it will still sound like Eddie Van Halen playing Jimmie Hendrix because of his style of playing...

I hear the argument a LOT about is my Sadowsky REALLy worth I paid for it and I always say yes....even though with the right adjustment of a combination of things including my own left/right hand technique I can approxiamte a LOT of different tones with this one Bass, (and I can do the same with my Warwicks to some degree as well) The reality is I still sound like ME no matter what type of musical material or what type/brand of Bass I play (that is how I keep working thank god!)

Give will Lee a broomstick with tobacco twine on it and he will make it sound good!! I once heard he did a session thinking it was a vocal (he sings as as well as he plays bass!!) and did not bring a bass. He wound up playing a beater that was not intonated and actually bent the notes up to pitch where he needed to!!! Everyone on the date was amazed but he just shrugged it off like it was no big deal because to him it wasn't. He is a pro, he will work with what he has and it will STILL sound like Will Lee.....

My point is simply this....we all, at some point in our musical lives spend or have spent (me included) a LOT of time and even more money chasing someone elses tone because it is TRULY an elusive quest and one that will NEVER END...find your tone and be known for something other than trying to copy someone else....find an instrument that SPEAKS TO YOU and use that instrument to speak to the rest of US...May your quest take you where you want to go...

Peace and Chicken Grease,

T

 

[Figjam]

I think Warwicks definitely have a signature sound. People always say that Warwicks have amazing growl but i dont really recognize the Warwick tone as growl, its more just woody and throaty to me.

Spectors to me, means growl. I have yet to play a Spector that didnt growl an insane amount.

 

[Bryan R. Tyler]

I think Warwicks definitely have a signature sound. People always say that Warwicks have amazing growl but i dont really recognize the Warwick tone as growl, its more just woody and throaty to me.

This is true for me. Also, there is a difference between the natural growl of a bass and the growl of a series of overdrive, distortion, amplification, etc. The growl of the growliest bass is still subtle in comparison to the growl you get when you start focusing on the electronics aspect of it. What you hear in the song "Never Again" isn't a bass-it's the post-bass electronics. Sure, the bass' sound is in there, but when I hear the song, the first thing I think is "stomp box."

 

[cetera]

I think Warwicks definitely have a signature sound. People always say that Warwicks have amazing growl but i dont really recognize the Warwick tone as growl, its more just woody and throaty to me.

Spectors to me, means growl. I have yet to play a Spector that didnt growl an insane amount.

I hear you on all of the above! I couldn't agree more...

ANd to the person who said Spectors sound thin I couldn't agree LESS! The Spector 'tone' is generally regarded as a bright, punchy, growly, FULL tone.....

 

[pistoleroace]

Due to the combination of it's woods and wenge fingerboard, Warwicks have a very unique sound. I really don't think that you're going to get a Warwick's tone and sound with a Sansamp. JMO. As for the Spectors, I really couldn't tell you.

+1

I've owned three Warwicks, a Thumb 4 NT, custom shop Thumb 5 BO and a Streamer Stage II 4 and the tone from all three were simply amazing. Also as mentioned before, your playing style makes a huge difference, a lot of your tone comes from the fingers. It's amazing what you can do tone-wise by changing up your playing style.