Do you ever feel like you're not a natural?

[Phil Smith]

There definitely is such a thing as natural talent - my elder sister has it. She's never really had to work hard at music, but she can hear a tune once and just play it on a piano like she has the chart in front of her. I can't do that, I have to spend time figuring out changes and melody that she plays right first time.

She also has perfect pitch, which I do not (nor anyone else in the family). I can sit at the piano and hit any chord and she can tell me the name of it without being able to see what I'm playing. And she has a very good singing voice - way better than mine, anyway.

The most annoying part? She hasn't really played anything in years.

I wish I'd got those abilities. Oh well, I guess I'll have to keep working at it.

How long has she been playing piano?

 

[BassyBill]

How long has she been playing piano?

She, like me, had lessons as a kid for about 5 years, if my memory serves me correctly. But she demonstrated the ability to just pick tunes up pretty early on.

(I think I actually learned more once I stopped having lessons, but that's another topic.)

That's going back quite a while. She almost never plays now. It wouldn't surprise me if she hasn't touched a keyboard in years. There isn't even a piano in her house. It's a real waste of talent, imo.

 

[GeoffT]

She, like me, had lessons as a kid for about 5 years.

5 Years of training doesn't sound like some "magical" talent to me. She may have had an advantage over you then but what about now, who is a better musician right now today, you or her? And who did the most work?

Someone used sports as an example, what about Michael Jordan? Wasn't even in the top 12-15 players in his HS and got cut. Jerry Rice? Didn't have the physical tools like a lot of receivers, great speed or size. Tom Brady? Wasn't drafted until the 6 round. Not one of them was considered to be the most talented well into their athletic careers. It is pretty well documented that each one of them became the best at what they did by working harder than their counterparts and striving to improve every single day.

 

[BassyBill]

5 Years of training doesn't sound like some "magical" talent to me. She may have had an advantage over you then but what about now, who is a better musician right now today, you or her? And who did the most work?

Someone used sports as an example, what about Michael Jordan? Wasn't even in the top 12-15 players in his HS and got cut. Jerry Rice? Didn't have the physical tools like a lot of receivers, great speed or size. Tom Brady? Wasn't drafted until the 6 round. Not one of them was considered to be the most talented well into their athletic careers. It is pretty well documented that each one of them became the best at what they did by working harder than their counterparts and striving to improve every single day.

I never said anything about "magical"! Nor did I say that you can't get to be a good musician through hard work. I did say that there is such a thing as natural talent and I still think the example I gave illustrates that pretty well.

Put it this way - if I'd started with some of the capabilities that she had, I'd be a better piano player today than I actually am.

For the record, I'm sure that some of the variation in the human population that affects musical outcomes is genetically influenced, because much of what I understand about biology would suggest that to be the case. But that belief does not necessarily mean I underestimate the influence of environmental factors (like hard work).

 

[wrench45us]

I've played with a few guitarists who thought if you couldn't pick up a song after they played it through once or twice then you weren't really trying, because that was something that came natural to them and they had a hard time understanding why that didn't come to the rest of us. (fortunately I was drumming at the time and had it a little easier than the other players)
The one fellow could follow some really good fingerpickers around on the summer blues/folk circuit and come back in the fall playing their arrangements.
So yes I think there are some natural musicians.

 

[Clef_de_fa]

She, like me, had lessons as a kid for about 5 years, if my memory serves me correctly. But she demonstrated the ability to just pick tunes up pretty early on.

(I think I actually learned more once I stopped having lessons, but that's another topic.)

That's going back quite a while. She almost never plays now. It wouldn't surprise me if she hasn't touched a keyboard in years. There isn't even a piano in her house. It's a real waste of talent, imo.

I met a guy with perfect pitch during my college degree and once he finished the degree, he stopped playing music because it is just too easy for him, no challenge at all.

 

[Bassist4Eris]

Music requires so many different skill sets, not necessarily intrinsically related. For example, good pitch is not good rhythm, which is not dexterity, which is not tone, etc. So my personal theory is that you can be a "natural" at just some of these, but have to develop the others. (Unless you're lucky like bassybill's sister). When I started out, I could easily play just about any rhythm, including odd time, but struggled with pitch. Stick with it, and you can overcome any obstacle. I think the most important thing to have is passion. Talent helps, but passion is required. Bassybill's sister kind of proves that.

 

[BassyBill]

Yeah, please don't think I'm saying hard work doesn't matter. It surely does. But to those who don't believe some folks are born with natural talent, just watch this.



Yeah, he's worked hard, for sure. But could just about ANY random nine year old achieve this through enough hard work? Of course not, and that's why we're amazed by such people. You could have gone into this kid's maternity ward and picked any other baby at random and if you tried to train them to play like this by age nine, I'd bet that you'd end up nowhere near close. This kid was born with something special and it's called talent or natural aptitude or whatever. It's something to be celebrated rather than denied, imo.

 

[bryan gibson]

I've been playing both bass and 6-string guitar for almost 30 years now, and gigging for almost 20. In my case playing bass comes much easier and feels much more natural. Even though I'm generally playing the same songs (some for the whole 3 decades...), 6-string still requires MUCH more daily practice to remain at a barely-average level (for around these parts anyhoo). Bass OTOH, I can pick up after a 3-4 month layoff and knock out a solid gig (above average level for these parts) with virtually no warmup. As usual, YMMV, FWIW, and my opinion and a buck will buy you a cup of coffee

 

[TigerInATrance]

Some of what's being said here is a little misguided. Hard work can allow anyone to play a musical instrument fairly competently, but, no matter how much work you put in, you will never reach the level of a Paul McCartney or Stevie Wonder or Dave Gilmour or Neil Peart without a high degree of natural talent. You either have it or you don't.

To the OP, if you have the drive and willingness to put in the time, you can certainly pull through. Another thing is that sometimes you need a change of pace. It's very helpful to practice a different way or listen to something completely different or find some new people to jam with occasionally.

 

[mambo4]

Do not waste your time wondering if you "have it", it is of absolutely no use if you seek to improve.

You either have it or you don't.

Once upon a time MacCartney, Gilmore etc , most certainly did not "have it."
All of them most certainly were uncoordinated and ignorant the first time they ever tried to play music.
The useful question is How did they They acquired "it"?

Through dedication and practice: the only possible answer for those who truly seek to improve.

 

[GeoffT]

Yeah, please don't think I'm saying hard work doesn't matter. It surely does. But to those who don't believe some folks are born with natural talent, just watch this.



Yeah, he's worked hard, for sure. But could just about ANY random nine year old achieve this through enough hard work? Of course not, and that's why we're amazed by such people. You could have gone into this kid's maternity ward and picked any other baby at random and if you tried to train them to play like this by age nine, I'd bet that you'd end up nowhere near close. This kid was born with something special and it's called talent or natural aptitude or whatever. It's something to be celebrated rather than denied, imo.

The only conclusions you can draw just by watching that 2 minute video is that he is very good for a 9 year old.

There is no information as to how he reached that level. Does he practice an hour a day, 2, 8? How long has he been playing? What kind of training/teaching does he receive? Is he surrounded by a musical family?

Calling it natural ability or talent is a pretty large assumption just from watching him play for 2 minutes. Can you show me some examples of kids with similar habits and environmental factors that aren't as good?

He is good at a young age so he is called a prodigy on that fact alone. Tiger Woods was called a prodigy too, turns out that the people who knew how much time and effort went into his ability called it the result of hard work and effort as opposed to natural talent. The people that only saw the results assumed it was natural ability.

Whether this kid has some natural ability or advantage over other kids doesn't really matter, in either case he never gets this good without doing the work. Celebrate the time and effort he put in to reach this level, not how much of a head start he may have had based on natural ability.

 

[BassGen]

There's nothing natural about it at all (except the notes that are neither sharps nor flats! :lol: ).

No, for me I have to work at it so that I don't suck as much as when I don't work at it. But yes it definitely improves with practice. Given where I was when I started a few years ago and where I am today I am quite pleased with what I have accomplished.

 

[BassyBill]

The only conclusions you can draw just by watching that 2 minute video is that he is very good for a 9 year old.

There is no information as to how he reached that level. Does he practice an hour a day, 2, 8? How long has he been playing? What kind of training/teaching does he receive? Is he surrounded by a musical family?

Calling it natural ability or talent is a pretty large assumption just from watching him play for 2 minutes. Can you show me some examples of kids with similar habits and environmental factors that aren't as good?

He is good at a young age so he is called a prodigy on that fact alone. Tiger Woods was called a prodigy too, turns out that the people who knew how much time and effort went into his ability called it the result of hard work and effort as opposed to natural talent. The people that only saw the results assumed it was natural ability.

Whether this kid has some natural ability or advantage over other kids doesn't really matter, in either case he never gets this good without doing the work. Celebrate the time and effort he put in to reach this level, not how much of a head start he may have had based on natural ability.

I'll politely but very firmly disagree with your point of view on this, based on most of what you wrote in this post. Whichever way I look at it, I think that kid is exceptional and I'm certain that his standard could not be achieved by every single other 9 year old, even if they did work as hard as he clearly has. Musical talent is at least partly the result of several traits that are subject to genetic variation within the population, as well as environmental factors such as training and practice. It looks to me like you might think there are no such genetic influences. If that is the case, I strongly believe you are mistaken. We're not all born the same.

I do agree, by the way, with your last paragraph - at least to some extent.

 

[morgansterne]

trumpet player Wynton Marsalis says he never missed a day a four hours practice each from age 12 to 19. Charlie Parker said he used to practice thirteen hours a day for a period until the neighbors yelled at his family about it.
Now I don't think anyone has to practice anywhere near that much. If you focus on your weak spots and work to overcome them specifically, you'll be better than someone else who just sits and plays fun stuff.

Matthew Syed's book Bounce has lots of examples of people who seem like "naturals" and he investigates their background to find out how they got that way.

 

[manghu67]

Some people are certainly more predisposed to some pursuits than others. I'm a much better bass player than I am a guitarist, despite having sent much more time playing the guitar.

Sure, I suppose there's such a thing as "a natural," but most of the rest of us have to work really hard at it.

 

[bassbully]

I have to work at music and always will. Music for me has been a struggle from the start and will be to the end...but I love it.

 

[T-MOST]

How many people are "naturals" at just about anything? Most of us have to work, practice and study at whatever we are interested in. Not being a natural at something doesn't mean you will not be great at it. Hence the work, practice and studying.

 

[BassMom88]

I posted my thoughts on this subject in the AW thread so I'll spare you and won't reiterate here...but I will share a great website I just found via the video BassyBill posted Invalid Link Removed
Some really interesting articles!!

 

[Handyman]

The only conclusions you can draw just by watching that 2 minute video is that he is very good for a 9 year old.

There is no information as to how he reached that level. Does he practice an hour a day, 2, 8? How long has he been playing? What kind of training/teaching does he receive? Is he surrounded by a musical family?

What I got from that video is that this kid is better at 9 years old than I would be with an infinite amount of practice.

My skills improve the more I practice, but I'm perfectly aware that said kid is WAY better than my theoretical maximum. Such is life. There's always someone better than you. Or if you're me, there are LOTS and LOTS of people better than you.