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Do you recommend tabs for a learner?

#21
Bruce Lindfield said:
But that only works if the Tab is correct!! :hmm:

So, what if the Tab has mistakes (very likely!!) or inefficient fingering? So - you could be learning bad habits or even worse, you could become used to hearing the wrong notes and that could hold you back for many years, labouring under a misconception...

The only way you can be 100% confident of knowing that you have got it right, is to develop your ear so that you know that what you are playing matches what you are hearing - so you might as well forget about the Tab and concentrate on your ear.
Click to expand...

Just wondering what you think of the Hal Leonard signature licks books. They have transcriptions of many famous players (Flea, McCartney, Jack Bruce etc...) and they are gonna be accurate since in some cases the artist himself over saw the process. Do you still think these aren't good to use???

It just seem it takes a long time to learn a song by ear but I'll keep plugging away if it's doing me good.......
 
#23
romac said:
Just wondering what you think of the Hal Leonard signature licks books...and they are gonna be accurate since in some cases the artist himself over saw the process. Do you still think these aren't good to use???...It just seem it takes a long time to learn a song by ear but I'll keep plugging away if it's doing me good...
Click to expand...
I know from my guitar days that those books also have errors in them. I have no problem with you using tab to learn the songs you have to learn this week FOR YOUR BAND PRACTICE. You have to take the short route to keep up with your song list. Just realize that some tab, even the published books, have errors.

Ok. Now. In addition to any songs you are learning by any other method, you have to spend regular time learning songs only and completely by ear. No tab. No music. Buy what ever device or software you have to for slowing the song down. Spend what ever amount of time you have to. This may mean that you have to pick a song that is easier than what you "like" or "want" to play.

Work out only a few measures at a time. I can spend two hours working out 8 beats and playing it over and over and over until I move on to the next part. The problem is, just because you "learn" the part, you don't "know" the part. Do not make the mistake of thinking that in one hour you should be able to sit and learn a song. It takes me an entire Saturday to "learn" a song, but the entire next week to practice it to be able to play up to speed with a band. This is hard work. Be realistic with your abilities and move slowly.

Tim99.
 
#25
Get a program that slows down MP3s. If steve harris is playing too fast for you (which he usually is) slow him down.

Unless a gig is coming up and you have little to no time, there is usually no excuse for tabs.

Kalamazoo by Primus use to scare the hell out of me, then I slowed it down, learned it, now it ain't no thang but a chicken wing.
 
#29
tim99 said:
I know from my guitar days that those books also have errors in them. I have no problem with you using tab to learn the songs you have to learn this week FOR YOUR BAND PRACTICE. You have to take the short route to keep up with your song list. Just realize that some tab, even the published books, have errors.

Ok. Now. In addition to any songs you are learning by any other method, you have to spend regular time learning songs only and completely by ear. No tab. No music. Buy what ever device or software you have to for slowing the song down. Spend what ever amount of time you have to. This may mean that you have to pick a song that is easier than what you "like" or "want" to play.

Work out only a few measures at a time. I can spend two hours working out 8 beats and playing it over and over and over until I move on to the next part. The problem is, just because you "learn" the part, you don't "know" the part. Do not make the mistake of thinking that in one hour you should be able to sit and learn a song. It takes me an entire Saturday to "learn" a song, but the entire next week to practice it to be able to play up to speed with a band. This is hard work. Be realistic with your abilities and move slowly.

Tim99.
Click to expand...


Very well said, I agree 100%. Sometimes we just cheat and look at tabs because we have to learn it in one week to play it with our bandmates. And not look like a "slowlearner", hehe...
 
#31
tim99 said:
Oh, the Tascam IS A CD PLAYER. It does not sample. No memory.
Click to expand...

One thing I have against this is that I would be afraid that continuous slowing down, or looping the CD, would be bad to the CD itself! Will it? :eyebrow:

Before mp3 are popular, I used to use my CD-player to transcribe, in that I will always press the "prev" button to back off a few seconds and let it play again... but still, afraid that it will wear off my CD. Though I know that CD is supposed to last forever.

Some use software called Transcribe!
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I am using this currently, because they have a linux version, and u know, 30-days stuffs are pretty easy to ahem on a linux box. :D

Time to write an opensource version!


I think the tools are good for trascribing, but not for practicing, that's because its quite troublesome to position the start and end points the places that falls on the exact beat!

So for practicing, I would use midi files instead if I can find them.
 
#32
kiwlm said:
One thing I have against this is that I would be afraid that continuous slowing down, or looping the CD, would be bad to the CD itself! Will it?
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No. The cd is metal inside plastic. The cd player focuses a light beam at the cd. This does not harm the cd.

kiwlm said:
I am using this currently...
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If you use it a lot and like it, you should buy it and give the programmers their due.

kiwlm said:
I think the tools are good for trascribing, but not for practicing, that's because its quite troublesome to position the start and end points the places that falls on the exact beat!
Click to expand...
Yes and no. What you have to do is press the start right on a ONE beat, and then press the end right on another ONE beat. I have never had to do this more than three times with the Tascam to get an acceptable repeat for practicing.

Tim99.
 
#33
kiwlm said:
One thing I have against this is that I would be afraid that continuous slowing down, or looping the CD, would be bad to the CD itself! Will it? :eyebrow:
Click to expand...
It shouldn't hurt the CD - it's more likely to cause problems for the drive, which will be constantly jumping back and foward. However, I presume the Tascam drive is engineered with that in mind.

I'm a fan of Transcribe! - with more recent versions of Windows you can even work directly from CD without having to rip the tracks first (good for picking something up quickly, although I prefer to digitise the tracks if I'm going to work on them in more detail). I haven't tried the Linux version but, as tim99 says, you should either pay the asking price or write your own based on open source tools - NOT ripping off Andy Robinson's work. One day, he might issue his work as open source but, until then, it's still a solid tool and worth the asking price.

I think the tools are good for trascribing, but not for practicing, that's because its quite troublesome to position the start and end points the places that falls on the exact beat!
Click to expand...
You can zoom in and adjust the markers. You can also adjust pitch over two octaves up AND down and change the speed, so you should be able to nail the exact points, practise at a comfortable speed and cope with the singer who demands you take the song up or down a couple of tones. You can also save the markers, which is invaluable for working on a song over several sessions.

So for practicing, I would use midi files instead if I can find them.
Click to expand...
If you do that, you're back to the TAB problem. Who guarantees that the midi file is accurate? You can evaluate whether it sounds good or not more easily than with a TAB but you're still relying on some else's transcription skills.

Wulf
 
#35
kiwlm said:
Well, for practicing, normally I just need to drum parts (sometimes with the melody), and mute off the bass parts.
Click to expand...
Ah - so you're talking about practising a line you know rather than getting the original transcription down? MIDI does make it easy to mute the bass line while keeping the other parts but you've got to be confident that those other parts have got the right feel. I prefer playing along with the recording - when I'm playing, it will generally cover the other bass part and it also lets me hear the vocals and work my cues off that.

Once I've done a song with the band and we've started to knock it into shape, I'll then start using rehearsal recordings - I'm focused on learning and developing my parts of for the purpose of making music with the rest of the group, rather than just for the accomplishment of saying "I can play X, just like the recording".

Wulf
 
#40
Bruce Lindfield said:
But that only works if the Tab is correct!! :hmm:
Click to expand...

I have some new arguments for this... hehe...

Learning by ear only works when what you finally learned is correct!

So, what if the Tab has mistakes (very likely!!) or inefficient fingering? So - you could be learning bad habits or even worse, you could become used to hearing the wrong notes and that could hold you back for many years, labouring under a misconception...

The only way you can be 100% confident of knowing that you have got it right, is to develop your ear so that you know that what you are playing matches what you are hearing - so you might as well forget about the Tab and concentrate on your ear.
Click to expand...

Well, my point is that, if a TAB is wrong, and after you have played it, and you did not realise it, I guess you won't go to far with learning by ear also.

But I understand that what you have mentioned is better in long term, but sometimes, when we are alone, with no teachers, and no bass-playing friends to cross check our transcriptions... it will kill off motivation to keep on transcribing and transcribing without getting it.
 

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