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Do you steal music???

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#103
Joe Nerve said:
anyone wanna sum it all up in a pragraph and give me the edited version??
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Sure. Some (like me) think that if you create a thing (whatever that thing is doesn't matter) and wish to sell it or copies of it for whatever price, then those who are willing/able to pay that price get it and those who are not willing/able don't. Others (seem) to think that if the price is too high, that shouldn't stop them from having it because it's priced too high, and so therefore, I'll just take it...it should be cheaper after all.
 
#104
I personally download music only when I need a song ASAP or I have no interest in buying the CD. Everything else I buy, slightly out of loyalty to the artists but mostly because I like shiny CDs and cool cover art.

As for the industry being doomed, its not, but its current buisness model is. It will have to adapt on a number of different levels, from the indie artists who count on free distribution to the major labels trying to foist overpriced music off on an ignorant public. The cat has left the bag, and he took Elvis with him. You can get peice of audio you want for free on the net, and that is not going to change. You can't "uninvent" a technology, especially not one as mainstream as MP3 file sharing.

Most of the bands and artists I know have excepted this reality. For a number of them it wasn't that big a jump: they made next to nothing from a CD sale, sometimes even loosing money after all the costs were factored in, but CD sales mean advertising, which means show attendence, which means merch sales. Its the latter two that have always been the best avenue for musicians to make money.
 
#105
I read what Economists have to say about the music industry. They recognize that CD distribution is less efficient than internet distribution. The old line music industry will have to change or disappear. Since artists - other than super groups - receive very little from the CD sale and most profit comes from live performance, the CD is really a promotion tool. Think of the promo CD that you create just to get gigs.

A possible model for profitable music distribution may be something like google or bittorrent. Musicians will cut the middle man and allow their music to be distrubuted by well organized music sites.

I write originals and I would love nothing more than having my music hosted by a popular online music service. One that can help me categorize and reach my audience.
 
#107
Wrong Robot said:
You can burn 10 CDs of the same playlist, but you can burn unlimited different playlists of the same files. 5 computers can be authorized to use the music(once they are authorized they can be deauthorized whenever you want). There is no restriction for putting it as many iPods as you want.

Once you Burn a CD, then reimport it, the DRM is removed, so then you are left with unprotected files that you can do whatever the hell you want with.

The main reason I support iTunes so much is because I really think that the more popular it gets, the more the record companies will have to spruce up their compensation of artists. Additionally, the more widespread it gets, the better it will get because more people will be complaining about whatever they can find something to complain about. In the meanwhile, it's enabled me to get hip to so much new music that I would have never heard of otherwise, and that ain't not bad.
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WR, Let me ask you a question (or other Itunes users). If you buy an album from Itunes will it put those "spaces" in between songs? The only thing I hate when I burn a CD into Itunes for my Ipod is that there is that space that's added. I know you can "get around" this by burning the continuous tracks as one, but then you lose the ability to skip through the first track.

I've never bought an album that way so I'm curious.

People talk about the cover art work and liner notes but honestly that doesn't matter to me. The main reason I prefer CDs is so there is not that crappy space put between continuous tracks.
 
#109
Marcus Willett said:
Sure. Some (like me) think that if you create a thing (whatever that thing is doesn't matter) and wish to sell it or copies of it for whatever price, then those who are willing/able to pay that price get it and those who are not willing/able don't. Others (seem) to think that if the price is too high, that shouldn't stop them from having it because it's priced too high, and so therefore, I'll just take it...it should be cheaper after all.
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That sums up how I feel about it. Even if the recording artists are only made three cents for every CD they sell, it's still three cents more than they'd make from the people stealing their album. If they really wanted to give away their music, they would-many artists put their music up for free download on their sites. The ones that don't DON'T want their music taken for free. If recording artists really thought of their albums as promotional items to promote their live shows, they wouldn't spend tens of thousands of dollars recording them (often leading to debt).

I think I have one burnt CD in my collection, a Bass Player mag collection, and I have it because BP doesn't sell or distribute the album anymore, so the artists can't even get any $$ from them.
 
#110
Joe Nerve said:
damn! you guys took off with this and i haven't kept up. now i have to read a half an hour's worth of posts in order to jump back in on my own thread. anyone wanna sum it all up in a pragraph and give me the edited version??? :cool:
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Sure.

Some people said they download.

Some people are outraged.

Some people came in with the occasional sane remark.

And a whole lot of people are sitting back with popcorn, watching the festivities and rolling their eyes at how ridiculous people can be when they stop paying attention to what each other might have to say.
 
#111
c-ba55 said:
Well, in my specific case, I download songs that I absolutely would not have bought, but am marginally interested in hearing. If the option to get them for free did not exist, I would just go without. Other people would have different judgments of that work and would buy it. I have not cost anybody anything. There is statistically, some chance of them actually making money off me now, since maybe I'll like it so much, I'll get into the band and end up supporting them.

I have bought >1000 CDs in my lifetime, btw, and I still buy a lot regularly. I don't download much anymore because it's such a hassle. The amount of MY time that would have to be spent acquiring a correct file is larger than what the songs are worth to me.
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I look at it in a similar way. Downloading "illegally" is only morally wrong depending on how you use it. Yeah, if that is the only way you get music then you ARE stealing, but...

I'm a grad student and don't have a lot of money so I can't just buy any old CD I hear about. I buy CDs from the bands I like or bands I'm sure to like, but if it is a new band I'm not familiar with I may download a few songs to see what I think. So downloading is a way for me to test the waters without wasting money.

For instance, last time I downloaded stuff, I got a couple of tracks from Trivium and a couple from The Dillinger Escape Plan. I liked Trivium, so I went to see them in concert a few weeks ago and bought a CD from them. The second band, well, I didn't care for them, so nothing wasted.
 
#112
I tend to be much more into underground music, so the availability of CDs at my local store is basically zero. I download a lot of free music via sites like mp3.com and soundclick and the like, and then if I like something, I tend to buy it if it's available online.

I rarely get into mainstream stuff, but when I do, I tend to download it or burn a copy of a friend's CD because I support the bands I like by seeing them on tours. I look at it like this: If I have to choose between buying a CD that I may or may not enjoy, or not hearing it at all, I'll choose not to hear it. So the band won't get any of my money from the CD sales, and I'm certainly not going to pay money to see a band I've not heard. On the other hand, if I download an entire album, I can check it out for free and if I enjoy it, I can pay money to see them live. There've even been quite a few CDs I downloaded that I liked so much I went out and bought them anyways.

And as a musician, I want my music to be heard by as broad an audience as possible. Would I like to make money from playing? Sure, who wouldn't? But first and foremost, I want people to hear my music. Whether they pay for it or not, that's the most important thing. And if people are willing to come out to a club and pay a cover charge to see my band play, the least I can do is give them a free disc. That way, if nothing else, they don't forget who I am by the next time I'm playing their local bar.

Artists still go platinum, so it's obvious that even in the face of the wide-spread downloading, the music industry and its artists are not suffering that much.

Jake
 
#113
Puarija said:
...iif I download an entire album, I can check it out for free and if I enjoy it, I can pay money to see them live...I want people to hear my music. Whether they pay for it or not, that's the most important thing.
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Unless perhaps you're a professional composer/songwriter who doesn't perform the song live, but depend on album sales/royalties for compensation...what about this person, just screwed?
 
#115
Artists still go platinum, so it's obvious that even in the face of the wide-spread downloading, the music industry and its artists are not suffering that much.
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A famous British historian wrote (disapprovingly) that, "The Puritans objected to bear baiting not because of the pain it caused the bear, but because of the pleasure it gave the audience." Well I'm with the Puritans. I'd rather be in the presence of a dead bear than a mob of humans who had cheered while it was tortured to death. Similarly, I'm a lot more worried about the cultural implications of downloading than I am about the health of a few big corporations or even a few starving songwriters. Next time you are playing a gig, consider the fact that you are in a room full of people who think it’s OK to steal from musicians. Keep an eye on your gear.
 
#116
Bob Rogers said:
A famous British historian wrote (disapprovingly) that, "The Puritans objected to bear baiting not because of the pain it caused the bear, but because of the pleasure it gave the audience." Well I'm with the Puritans. I'd rather be in the presence of a dead bear than a mob of humans who had cheered while it was tortured to death. Similarly, I'm a lot more worried about the cultural implications of downloading than I am about the health of a few big corporations or even a few starving songwriters. Next time you are playing a gig, consider the fact that you are in a room full of people who think it’s OK to steal from musicians. Keep an eye on your gear.
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Well said.

*Puts on pilgrim hat*

brad cook
 
#119
msquared said:
You have got to be kidding me.

This is like watching Reefer Madness.
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You mean you don't keep an eye on your gear? :rollno:

Seriously, I'm not saying it's the same thing. But the progression from "It's OK to break the law if I don't hurt anyone" to "it's OK to steal something as long as it's only a digital file and it's from someone I don't like" is a pretty steep slide on the slippery slope. What's next? Why isn't it OK to steal my bass? I've got more than one. Would you do it if you knew there was as little chance of getting caught as you do for downloading a file?
 
#120
While I do feel that downloading music is stealing, I don't feel that downloading is even in the same ballpark as stealing someone's bass.

Consider: If you make a copy of someone's music, and don't buy it later, the absolute worst thing that happens is that the person downloading didn't buy it. That means that the entire band didn't make their 40c on the album, and the label will drop them if it happens enough. While this is bad news, it's not a huge concern for an established act (since they probably won't get dropped). That album wasn't taken away from someone who was going to buy it. But were you planning to buy it in the first place? If you hear it and like it, you might end up buying it. So while on the surface it's technically theft, it's still possible that it will lead to a sale that would have never happened without you stealing in the first place.

If I steal your bass, you are done making music unless you have more. I have singlehandedly (unless this is John Turner's bass and I need two hands to lift it) deprived you of something that took you several hours of work to earn the money for. I had to do it while several people were watching, including your angry band members, so there was a physical risk involved. With downloading, there is no risk involved. As a species we are cowards (or pragmatic, your call), and that isn't going away anytime soon.
 
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