Do your 1/8th notes betray your background when reading?

[Pilgrim]

"Let's play number 753 next."

Ok, ok, everybody likes a little, no one likes a smart.....

 

[vindibona1]

Totally agree, and I've also been at it a long time. But take something like your excerpt in the other thread: with absolutely no prior knowledge and presented with it as a sight-reading exercise. At first sight and without thinking, how would you go at it?

Great question. When it first came at me I played it in first position. Retrospectively, I am much more fluid in 5th position. I'm not sure why I didn't innately use 5th? A lot of time when sight reading I will go for 1st position first, but not always. Perhaps if I saw that opening as an arpeggiated chord of Cmb9 it might have changed things. But having an eye-brain coordination issue I'm happy just to be able to read the music. My brain just processes things slowly these day. Back 10 or 15 years ago I could often (on trumpet) walk into concert and play it cold with no rehearsal. Not no more . It also took awhile to acclimate to bass clef where I didn't have to think about (though interestingly, Trumpet (C) in Eb is read as if bass clef with a key signature change :0). Reading piano music produces its own challenges for me.

 

[SteveCS]

My instinct is to play as written?

Likewise, and of course, but the question is very narrow. In some 'sectors' there are unspoken conventions that swung 1/8ths need not be written as such - something in your musical background puts you in the know, and may also influence your instinct when nothing is explicitly stated: In the absence of any written directions and without thinking, what would your instant (first half-second) gut reaction be to something like this trivial line as it lands in front of you? And to what extent might this be a reflection of your musical journey to date?

 

[JazznFunk]

Context is everything! Play it straight in a jazz trio and you'll get a bit of "Stink-Eye": Swing it in the orchestra and you get 100+ players all gunning for you, many of them "tooled up" with some pretty hefty lumps of metal!!

This was intended for the practice room, not gigging.

 

[JazznFunk]

Likewise, and of course, but the question is very narrow. In some 'sectors' there are unspoken conventions that swung 1/8ths need not be written as such - something in your musical background puts you in the know, and may also influence your instinct when nothing is explicitly stated: In the absence of any written directions and without thinking, what would your instant (first half-second) gut reaction be to something like this trivial line as it lands in front of you? And to what extent might this be a reflection of your musical journey to date?
View attachment 5424583

With that 'score', there's no way to know except for asking the people with whom you're playing. In a practice room, I'd practice it straight, and swung.

 

[MuseChaser]

Likewise, and of course, but the question is very narrow. In some 'sectors' there are unspoken conventions that swung 1/8ths need not be written as such - something in your musical background puts you in the know, and may also influence your instinct when nothing is explicitly stated: In the absence of any written directions and without thinking, what would your instant (first half-second) gut reaction be to something like this trivial line as it lands in front of you? And to what extent might this be a reflection of your musical journey to date?
View attachment 5424583

If I saw that on a gig, no opportunity to discuss anything with anyone else in the group, and the leader counted it off, I'd instinctively play that particular line as a shuffle (with swing-ish eighth notes) simply because that written bass line is USUALLY used in a shuffle style; it's less common with straight rock feels. I'd also listen very carefully to any inflection/clues in the leader's count-off (clapping/snapping on 1 and 3, or 2 and 4? Any sort of hiccupy sounding "One... Two....a-One, Two, Three, a-Four"?), and have my ears WIDE open (as they always are, or always should be anyway) for what everyone else is doing. If I'm swinging/shuffling and no one else is, I've got it corrected by the second beat.

 

[bwildt]

I rarely play eighth notes completely straight, unless the song has a super eighth-driven feel. Even if the eighths are straight, I often have small variations not in timing, but dynamics-- volume, attack or note length. I find playing machine-gun eighths really boring.

 

[charliethomas]

It's kind of an odd question to me. What determines whether I play swung or straight 8ths is genre, markings on the score, what other musicians are playing - the context in general.

Are we assuming no context here? By default I would play straight 8ths. I do have a classical music background.

If nothing else, this thread makes me wanna try swinging some Bach!

 

[vindibona1]

Likewise, and of course, but the question is very narrow. In some 'sectors' there are unspoken conventions that swung 1/8ths need not be written as such - something in your musical background puts you in the know, and may also influence your instinct when nothing is explicitly stated: In the absence of any written directions and without thinking, what would your instant (first half-second) gut reaction be to something like this trivial line as it lands in front of you? And to what extent might this be a reflection of your musical journey to date?
View attachment 5424583

I looked at your attached insert and knew instantly that the context was swung.
But then again there are charts written where there is no question beyond strict interpretation But even with defined rhythmic notations one has to understand the nuances. A dotted 8th-16th can be required to be strict or a little relaxed like a triplet. One of the best conductors in the US (according to me) who I spent 15 years with would often say, "Don't play it like its written. Play it like it sounds". But that would often require having heard the piece for reference;; or without that previous experience, it is then up to the conductor or music director to interpret it so that all the musicians are all on the same page. That's where "tightness" comes from.
Like I said- You gotta know. Nothing replaces experience.

 

[Bob_Ross]

It would strike me as a very unusual (and, imho, misguided) instinct -- or at least, one from a musician who has an extremely limited background and/or oeuvre -- to assume that 8th notes are swung absent any explicit indication to do so.

otoh, here's a related question that might make for some more compelling (or revealing) discussion: What is your first instinct when faced with either
- A) a repeating sequence alternating between dotted 8th notes and 16th notes; or
- B) a repeating sequence alternating between quarter-note triplets and 8th note triplets (i.e., the first two partials of an 8th note triplet tied together, followed by the third partial)
in an unknown score, and with no explicit instructions further clarifying: Do you assume that the intention is to represent swung 8th notes?

 

[vindibona1]

It would strike me as a very unusual (and, imho, misguided) instinct -- or at least, one from a musician who has an extremely limited background and/or oeuvre -- to assume that 8th notes are swung absent any explicit indication to do so.

otoh, here's a related question that might make for some more compelling (or revealing) discussion: What is your first instinct when faced with either
- A) a repeating sequence alternating between dotted 8th notes and 16th notes; or
- B) a repeating sequence alternating between quarter-note triplets and 8th note triplets (i.e., the first two partials of an 8th note triplet tied together, followed by the third partial)
in an unknown score, and with no explicit instructions further clarifying: Do you assume that the intention is to represent swung 8th notes?

I think you have it right. But I think the emphasis has to be on the "extremely limited background" part.
In fact, in my experience, without the knowledge of the context of the style and or explicit instruction one should assume that 8th notes should be played straight. For the record, I hate tablature and only find it a bit useful when connected to standard notation for finger position (some times).