Can you provide a link to the Chinese website? It isn't turning up in search results.
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MuddyWater bass preamp (noble clone)
- Thread starter smeet
- Start date
I believe it's this XVOICE 音响 / The Brickska DI which gives me a lot of a Radial J48 vibes. They run about $150-$160 USD but you'll probably have to use a proxy service to get one in the states as it seems they're only available on Taobao, etc.
The "magic" is the marketing. I’ve tested the Noble extensively and compared it with other units. It’s a very good device, but in my opinion, it’s ridiculously overpriced. Sushi Box and others prove that pedals of identical quality can be significantly cheaper.
Although I have yet to play through a Noble (due to cost), I do own several Demeter preamps and amps, and have gigged those extensively. I have also done a LOT of listening to the Noble and the various relateds, like the Nobellium etc.I moved around a bunch. I have a few items depending on my mood.
Demeter VTBP M 800 D was my head around the time I tried it, and the amp was plenty good with more controls, and was a full amp. I sold the head but occasionally miss it and think of the preamp as an option, but the rack format is a speed bump.
VTBP-M-800D | Demeter Amplification
demeteramps.com
I also found the v1 Night Owl Edison was great at adding tube character with more "character" though fewer features. I have it but don't use it and consider flipping it.
Starlifter is great for a clean DI and the two voice settings and the semi para Mids give it a ton of range.
StarLifter Bass Preamp/DI
Explore galaxies of tone with the new StarLifter bass preamp/DI pedal. Top notch sound quality with an accessible feature set with easy to use controls.nordstrandaudio.com
I'm currently running a SansAmp BDDI V2. The non-blended EQ-only sound of it is fine but not particularly magical. I mostly want it for the signature sound with the cab-sim filter and a touch of drive and presence. I've been trying VST amps and cabs from Two Notes (Genome) so the BDDI occasionally gets bypassed or only used for a monitoring signal while the dry signal gets recorded.
Bass Driver DI – Tech 21 NYC
OWNER’S MANUAL BASS DRIVER DI Much more than just a direct box, the SansAmp Bass Driver DI is capable of dialing up big vintage tube tones, bright modern slap sounds, gnarly distortions, and all in between. Three different outputs to drive power amps, recording desks, PA mixers, or simply...www.tech21nyc.com
First, the Noble reminds a lot of my Demeter VTBP-201. Further, I find the diff between the Noble and Nobellium etc to be very similar to the difference between the Demeter amps containing the tube driven ouput and those with the solid state output; the former being a bit meatier, and the latter being a bit quicker. That distinction tends to be apparent when cork sniffing in the practice room, solo YT, or studio; but becomes much less in a live setting.
I’m still pretty interested in the Noble; but, have certain reservations, such as price and some of the power management aspects.
Meanwhile, for the clean tones I prefer, I have had VERY good luck with three other preamps: 1) Currently gigging the Shift Line Olympic MkIIIs, which sits somewhere between the Demeter and Alembic F1X, and includes an excellent cabsim built in; 2) Running a SushiBox More into the V1 Tech21 BDDI; and 3) The SushiBox Venus Z, which has more of a GK palette, but similar tube feel.
So many good options.
Have you tried the Vttb 180 Toolbox? Three band EQ and a power amp section in a small form factor. It’s kinda tempting from a few angles but definitely more want than need for what I’m doing.
The Noble and Nobelium (the C2C version being essentially the same as the Sushi Box far as audio-path) have a nearly-identical audio-path, but with some caveats- the Noble has a custom audio transformer at the DI made for them while the Nobelium kit is spec’d for use with a choice of a few different high-end transformers that are likely different specs, and the Noble has a custom power transformer to convert AC wall voltage to the necessary internal voltages for the circuit/tubes while the Nobelium uses an SMPS circuit to boost 9-12V DC to the necessary high voltage for the tube (and the Nobelium circuit also feeds the tube heaters a relatively low voltage direct from the power supply, 9V vs an optimal 12.6V- which apparently is common in Sushi Box pedals from my understanding). Both of these differences will affect the feel/performance to some degree, though I don’t think anyone has measured it (it would be fairly complex to do so) since it is probably less of a tonal than dynamic difference. You can certainly hear some difference in direct comparisons, but preference is subjective and one is MUCH cheaper.
The tonestack of the Noble is a modified Fender-type passive stack, just with a fixed internal Mid. In that sense it should be similar to some of the older Demeters that used the Fender stack (along with preamps like the Alembic F2B) when you have the Mid turned up all the way. The HPF addition of the Noble is a cool addition though.
I’ve looked hard at that one. The ONLY issue for me is that I prefer a Vol control on the DI Send. Yes, I know it shouldn’t be needed. But I do use one from time to time with diff sound engineers. Prob just my eccentricity.
If you’re saying the magic doesn’t exist when you can’t hear it then I agree completely.
It's not the notes you play, it's the notes you don't play.
- Davis
It's not the tone you hear, it's the tone you don't hear.
- Noble
The magic is there; I just can’t hear it. I probably haven’t engaged with it deeply enough. Now we’ve finally entered the realm of religion. Which fits in very well with discussions about the Noble. Which would prove my point.
You’ve proved an opinion. Neat trick.
I gotta go floss my dog’s teeth.
I briefly owned a noble, years ago. I thought it sounded good but when set flat it seemed subtle to the point of invisibility in the context of a mix, especially live. But, in blind listening tests online, I have consistently picked the noble over its competitors.
In the past I have preferred a more obvious and less pristine version of the “tube sound”. Not audibly distorted, but in the vein of a clean SVT. Now, I’m not so sure. I just traded away an Oracle pre, it felt too squishy and colored under my fingers.
On the other hand, my Mantle sounds great but has none of that give and bounce.
It seems that I was looking for something subtle yet obvious in a live mix (I mean obvious to me as the player). I like the big feeling, the “give”, the feeling of having lots of mids yet pleasantly scooped. But I also want it to sound “fast” and “clean”. I don’t even know if the quality I’m searching for is really related to tubes, or if it comes from other aspects of circuit design (as @agedhorse has often posited).
These days I am playing through a Fender Super Bassman 300 and the matching 610. It sounds glorious, and perhaps coincidentally it has tubes in it.
I’m in bed recovering from being sick, and my fever dreams were swirling visions of tube preamps and eqs. But as the sickness subsided and the sun came out, I started wondering why I’m still chasing even more toobs. I mean, everything sounds tubey through the SB300. So probably a Capo is in my immediate future. The eq, signal routing, and subtle distortion control are appealing. And it’s not ridiculously big and heavy.
Sorry to derail my thread. Please resume the argumentation.
In the past I have preferred a more obvious and less pristine version of the “tube sound”. Not audibly distorted, but in the vein of a clean SVT. Now, I’m not so sure. I just traded away an Oracle pre, it felt too squishy and colored under my fingers.
On the other hand, my Mantle sounds great but has none of that give and bounce.
It seems that I was looking for something subtle yet obvious in a live mix (I mean obvious to me as the player). I like the big feeling, the “give”, the feeling of having lots of mids yet pleasantly scooped. But I also want it to sound “fast” and “clean”. I don’t even know if the quality I’m searching for is really related to tubes, or if it comes from other aspects of circuit design (as @agedhorse has often posited).
These days I am playing through a Fender Super Bassman 300 and the matching 610. It sounds glorious, and perhaps coincidentally it has tubes in it.
I’m in bed recovering from being sick, and my fever dreams were swirling visions of tube preamps and eqs. But as the sickness subsided and the sun came out, I started wondering why I’m still chasing even more toobs. I mean, everything sounds tubey through the SB300. So probably a Capo is in my immediate future. The eq, signal routing, and subtle distortion control are appealing. And it’s not ridiculously big and heavy.
Sorry to derail my thread. Please resume the argumentation.
Back in the 70's, I owned a Bassman 50 with a 2x15 Fender cab. In my time-tempered memory, I still think that was a terrific sounding tube amp. My current performing amp, a Genzler MG350-BA10-Combo-S2, outperforms the Fender in every way and I wish I'd had it back then, as much as I was playing. Much easier to transport! But the Genz doesn't sound and feel like the Fender.
I'm glad you got the 300, Sumit. I've never played through one but I sure have heard great things about them.
I'm glad you got the 300, Sumit. I've never played through one but I sure have heard great things about them.
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With a Fender Super 300 you should be able to get most everything you might want from a Noble and then some! Very similar tonestack from the clean channel, just with ALOT more range. The downside of course being the size and weight, but if you are willing to lug that thing around then the Noble is absolutely overkill. I can understand the attraction to the Noble for some people not relying on a vibey stage amp like yours, or no stage amp at all, or for just a simple clean recording rig- but there are tons of other options that are subjectively just as good or better. I ultimately think there is alot of FOMO attached to the current expensive rig of the day, and it can cause alot of irrational GAS
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I was, but I’ve settled on getting all my tube vibes from the amp. So today, it’s the Coda. Tomorrow, who knows?Oh go on, Sumit. Derail your own thread!
Are you giving any thought to the C2C Nobelium at all?
I always see people of my age going back to a P with flatwounds straight into a small amp. I just can’t seem to get there.
I was chasing hi-fi for quite a while, and nowadays I'm very happily going back to flats and lower-fi, LPF and all. It sounds more like bass to me. I still don't have a P-bass, though I wouldn't mind one.
I like my Genzler combo, which is about as small as it gets, but it still sounds too bright with the array, even though no tweet, and I turn down the treble quite a bit. I probably would be very happy with a straight 10", like a Barefaced.
That's just the way I hear things after 50+ years of playing bass. I should be after MORE treble and not less, because of hearing loss, but I just don't like the highs. Good mids that are carefully gotten are the real deal.
How about you, Sumit?
I like my Genzler combo, which is about as small as it gets, but it still sounds too bright with the array, even though no tweet, and I turn down the treble quite a bit. I probably would be very happy with a straight 10", like a Barefaced.
That's just the way I hear things after 50+ years of playing bass. I should be after MORE treble and not less, because of hearing loss, but I just don't like the highs. Good mids that are carefully gotten are the real deal.
How about you, Sumit?
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I’m not sure what hi-fi means when it comes to an instrument. It’s a bit like “modern” which often implies scooped and sterile. I like a lively sound, and I like to hear the texture of finger on string. Ideally I want a good high frequency response, but I strive to develop enough control so that the brightness is heard when I want it to be heard (I’m not there yet). But good strong mids and especially low mids are key for me.
I like the classic sounds of flats on recordings, but I don’t really like playing them myself. I would rather play rounds with a light touch and use the pads of my fingers to get a warm sound.
I think that’s part of why I like clean tube amps - lots of nice overtones in the notes, but it feels organically part of the instrument’s sound. Or it can if the player is good enough.
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