Do your guitarists mic their own amps?

[gotly]

I feel like I have it easy with bass. I have a 50 ft XLR cable that I can plug into my amp head and run to the mixer. Most of the time, there's a cable ready for me. I've never had a sound guy refuse to run me direct or try to mic my cab.

Guitarists, on the other hand, usually need to run a mic to the mixer. Do you expect a guitarist to bring their own equipment to mic their amp? Most of the time I've seen guitarists very reliant on a sound guy to get completely set up and they rarely own their own mic + stand.

It's a weird division where I feel like bassists are more prepared to play live than guitarists. Just my experience.

 

[StyleOverShow]

Great question. Yeah I’ve always presumed that guitarist prefer mic’d amps because the effects. So the guitarist in band one doesn’t carry any direct or mic equip. Fortunately all the venues/festivals have equip around.

Band two’s guitarist doesn’t have a clue. He often borrows my spare cable, onstage! I guess that speaks to bassists basic preparedness?

I try to keep a one load status of readiness. Mic and music stands may require additional trips. It’s challenging.

 

[Wasnex]

It's a weird division where I feel like bassists are more prepared to play live than guitarists. Just my experience.

Audio techs usually provide mics, cables, and DIs as needed, but it is a good idea to carry your own for those occasions when none are provided. Typically techs prefer to use there own equipment because they understand how it works and familiarity with the equipment makes it easier to quickly get a good sound. On occasion I have negotiated with an audio tech who wanted to use a really crappy DI rather than the Radial I carry in my rack drawer. Rather than get ugly, I ask the tech to try the Radial and assure him I will quickly swap in his DI if he can't quickly get a good sound. Haven't had a tech ask me to change out the Radial yet.

If the band runs it's own sound, then it may or may not be expected for each person to provide and/or plug in their own equipment. Most of the bands I have worked with have a dedicated audio tech and a high quality sound system, and each band members is assigned defined set up tasks because roadies are not provided.

 

[DirtDog]

If my guitarist wants his amp in the PA, he supplied the mic and cable. He uses an e906.

Oftentimes in the places we play, even if he mics up, there’s no need for any guitar in the mains

 

[Wasnex]

If my guitarist wants his amp in the PA, he supplied the mic and cable. He uses an e906.

Oftentimes in the places we play, even if he mics up, there’s no need for any guitar in the mains

A 30 watt tube guitar amp is often capable of playing loud enough to blow out a bar or small to medium hall. Something to consider is how beamy the speaker is. Single driver cabs are least beamy; multiple driver cabs tend to focus more of the guitar's energy into a narrow beam that forms between the drivers. Anyone in front of a multi-driver cab will hear primarily the direct guitar sound, and the sound will typically be overly loud and painfully bright. Anyone outside of the beam will tend to hear more off axis and indirect sound which tends to be darker. Most guitarist prefer to aim the beam away from the heads and key off the darker off axis and indirect sound. This approach ensures the sound in the beam will be harsh and bright.

While keying off the indirect sound is an easy approach and many guitarists prefer it because it allows them to crank their amps, it may not be ideal for the rest of the band or from the audience's perspective. If the band wants their sound to be more uniform throughout the performance venue, a better approach is turn down the amp and mic the guitar cab. Having the guitarist aim the beam at their ears and adjust their tone controls so the beam gives a warm and even sound will typically produce the lowest stage volume. Sending the guitarists mic signal to his or her fold-back monitor can also help lower stage volume.

Unfortunately many guitarist expect to be enveloped within a warm wash of sound that can only be achieved if they crank their amp and key off their indirect sound. IMHO this approach becomes a bit myopic and selfish when everyone else in the band is struggling to hear themselves over the guitar.

If the guitarist refuses to adjust and insists on playing too loud, setting up a mic is likely to be a complete waste of time. If the guitarist is willing to make some compromises and can maintain a good even volume throughout the performance, mic'ing his or her cabinet will generally provide superior results even in relatively small spaces.

 

[gotly]

Well put, Wasnex. That's why when I run sound for my cover band, I insist our guitarists all go into the PA for our shows. It keeps the stage volume low since we rely on the monitors, keeps sound distribution even in awkwardly shaped venues and prevents blowing out the audience.

 

[Inara]

Audio techs usually provide mics, cables, and DIs as needed, but it is a good idea to carry your own for those occasions when none are provided. Typically techs prefer to use there own equipment because they understand how it works and familiarity with the equipment makes it easier to quickly get a good sound. On occasion I have negotiated with an audio tech who wanted to use a really crappy DI rather than the Radial I carry in my rack drawer. Rather than get ugly, I ask the tech to try the Radial and assure him I will quickly swap in his DI if he can't quickly get a good sound. Haven't had a tech ask me to change out the Radial yet.

If the band runs it's own sound, then it may or may not be expected for each person to provide and/or plug in their own equipment. Most of the bands I have worked with have a dedicated audio tech and a high quality sound system, and each band members is assigned defined set up tasks because roadies are not provided.

Ditto. It's always seemed a given that the clubs I've played (quite a few over a good number of years in both Seattle and Nashville) have their own mics that they know and prefer. The one exception is a band I was in that provided our own PA. Other than that, I've never played with a guitarist who brought their own mic, except as a backup (that I never saw used by the sound crew). On the other hand, I have had sound people come up to me a couple of times as I was warming up and say "That rig sounds great! Do you mind if I mic you instead of going direct?"

 

[Frankjohnson]

Audio techs usually provide mics, cables, and DIs as needed, but it is a good idea to carry your own for those occasions when none are provided. Typically techs prefer to use there own equipment because they understand how it works and familiarity with the equipment makes it easier to quickly get a good sound. On occasion I have negotiated with an audio tech who wanted to use a really crappy DI rather than the Radial I carry in my rack drawer. Rather than get ugly, I ask the tech to try the Radial and assure him I will quickly swap in his DI if he can't quickly get a good sound. Haven't had a tech ask me to change out the Radial yet.

If the band runs it's own sound, then it may or may not be expected for each person to provide and/or plug in their own equipment. Most of the bands I have worked with have a dedicated audio tech and a high quality sound system, and each band members is assigned defined set up tasks because roadies are not provided.

I am a firm believer that ......
if you are professional or aspiring to be professional.....
you have professional gear to do your job, and/or you are willing to accept what is provided and play to the best of your ability with what is provided without bitching.


My band leaves everything up to me, and we get by. I have decent eqpt, but not what some people would spec on a rider. I occasionally get to run sound for some national acts, and we seem to get by. Sometimes, they provide DI's or mics, but honestly, most ask what I prefer. My answer is usually something like "These are what I have available.......what do you think will work best for you?" If it is their equipment, that is what we go with. I want them to be comfortable and it gives them one less thing to worry about in an unfamiliar room.

 

[Geri O]

I carry small PA packages for when the need arises. My deal is, if I can't get my rig and a small PA and the trimmings into my Nissan Armada, then someone else needs to provide. That's a bigger PA than I care to fool with these days.

I carry guitar mics and drum overheads for the same reason - To keep someone from griping. Most places I play, there's simply no need to mic the electric instruments. I'll run a kick and a snare/hat condenser mic. Then determine whether I need them or not. Same with a guitar mic. Guitarist get upset when they see drum mies, but no guitar mic...

To answer the question, I bring all the mics I anticipate needing. If a player has their preferred microphone or DI, I'm happy to use what they bring.

(I LOVE it when acoustic guitar players bring this Fishman-DI-thing, those things sound sooo good. If not, I throw a Radial J48 on the acoustic.)

 

[two fingers]

I think it's a bit odd to say that all you need is a mic cable but "you're prepared an the guitarist isn't" in the same post. All you did to "prepare" was bring your amp, which you would do anyway.

That being said, I'm a bit of a boy scout. I prepare for anything. Sure, I have an XLR out on all of my amps. But I also have TWO kinds of DI boxes available in case something goes bad on my amp (a Rolls Red Square that could be used for anything on stage if need be, and an MXR M81 that I use as a stomp box for fattening up my bridge pickup and also has a DI out on it if I need it). If you don't, I would argue that YOU are unprepared.

So every guitar player who wishes to have his/her amp miced SHOULD, in my view, have a mic on hand to get the job done, even if it's just an SM57. But most reputable sound companies, and ANY band that owns its own PA should also have instrument mics around for such things.

So, yes, the guitar player should have a mic. But I wouldn't trust ANY venue or sound company that didn't have on hand several instrument mics. That's just part of the game. It would be like a football player showing up with Converse Chucks on if they didn't.

 

[Wasnex]

Guitarist get upset when they see drum mies, but no guitar mic...

I have had the same problem with trumpet players in big bands. IMHO, if they express concern, it's best to put up a mic instead of arguing, even if you know you will never use the mic. If you don't give them a mic they will just play louder because they can't conceive that they could already be way louder than everyone else.

 

[Frankjohnson]

I think it's a bit odd to say that all you need is a mic cable but "you're prepared an the guitarist isn't" in the same post. All you did to "prepare" was bring your amp, which you would do anyway.

That being said, I'm a bit of a boy scout. I prepare for anything. Sure, I have an XLR out on all of my amps. But I also have TWO kinds of DI boxes available in case something goes bad on my amp (a Rolls Red Square that could be used for anything on stage if need be, and an MXR M81 that I use as a stomp box for fattening up my bridge pickup and also has a DI out on it if I need it). If you don't, I would argue that YOU are unprepared.

So every guitar player who wishes to have his/her amp miced SHOULD, in my view, have a mic on hand to get the job done, even if it's just an SM57. But most reputable sound companies, and ANY band that owns its own PA should also have instrument mics around for such things.

So, yes, the guitar player should have a mic. But I wouldn't trust ANY venue or sound company that didn't have on hand several instrument mics. That's just part of the game. It would be like a football player showing up with Converse Chucks on if they didn't.

I have half a dozen basic standard DI's, two Baggs acoustic Venue DI's but nothing really specific for bass yet. I have two Beta 52's and ad D112 for kick/bass if needed. I have like 8 SM57's and 9-10 SM 58s, two Senheiser 609s, a CAD Drum mic setup that is surprisingly decent, and a couple of AKG D5s. for the most part, I never intended to get into doing sound, but do a little. I have a couple of other condenser mics but don't' use them much live right now....

Its a start, but honestly, as much as I can spend for a while until it becomes more serious than "sometimes", and it covers the band I have, the venue I work with right now on a pretty regular basis, and some side sound gigs for bands that are not a PITA.

In my band one guy has his own PA, mics for vox and guitars, the other has a vocal mic, but nothing for his amp. My regular drummer has Shure mics - a basic pack and clips - along with cables. These guys are gold to work with. If I pick up a good deal one day - guitar guy without the amp mic will get a gift of a 609. He is the kind of guy who would appreciate it!

 

[4Mal]

Frank... check out the Senn e604 clip on’s... I use them on ‘non-critical snare tops and toms. Each one saves a stand... mike Pyle (AudioPyle) got me a rockin’ deal on a three pack last summer when I had a double header... love ‘em. In my opinion, the heart of a Sound co is it’s mic and DI closet. Get that wrong and nothing else is really going to work...

My guy uses a 25 / 50 watt Mesa combo on an extension cab. Loaded with EV’s. A very sweet rig. He carries a combo amp stand and a short mic stand and Sennheiser e609. I put a drop snake on his side of the stage and get 6 channels of guitars, harp mic, keys and 2 vox back. It’s a 6x2 so he and our lady lead slacker get their monitor feeds off that... he does everything at that end. It’s all labeled for ease. Saves me a ton of time running down cables.

 

[Jazz Ad]

I don't think I have ever played with a guitarist who had the slightest idea about the way his sound should go to FOH or even thought about it in advance.
They expect the sound guy to do it through magic and every time a mic had to be provided, it was one of my 57s.

 

[Frankjohnson]

Frank... check out the Senn e604 clip on’s... I use them on ‘non-critical snare tops and toms. Each one saves a stand... mike Pyle (AudioPyle) got me a rockin’ deal on a three pack last summer when I had a double header... love ‘em. In my opinion, the heart of a Sound co is it’s mic and DI closet. Get that wrong and nothing else is really going to work....

I think that one day - those would be a great next mic purchase - once again - thanks for the inside track!!

 

[4Mal]

You’ll find it hard to go back to 57’s and i5’s and stands... except for when a boutique drum kit with fat wooden rims shows up... then you are break out the stands again - or Audix d-vice clip on adapters. so to do what you and I are doing, you still have to own the other stuff... it’s just that on most gigs you’ll save 3 or more stands to unload, setup, tear down, re pack...

No to mention they are nice sounding mics...

 

[Frankjohnson]

You’ll find it hard to go back to 57’s and i5’s and stands... except for when a boutique drum kit with fat wooden rims shows up... then you are break out the stands again - or Audix d-vice clip on adapters. so to do what you and I are doing, you still have to own the other stuff... it’s just that on most gigs you’ll save 3 or more stands to unload, setup, tear down, re pack...

No to mention they are nice sounding mics...

I am all about that type of space economy..... I used something like this to mic the hat and snare from under the hat - to get that Crisp sizzle - aimed up and sort of at the snare if needed.
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/km-extension-microphone-holder

Sometimes - on other cymbals if needed too

 

[4Mal]

Hmmm... might need to get one of those to play with

 

[kittywithabanjo]

Our guitarist uses one of those jdx di boxes that goes between his amp and cab. I just drop his di at his set up spot and he hooks it all up. Before that I would leave a Sm57 on a small stand ready to go for him.

As the PA guy I like to have everything so I have a spare jdx extra mics extra cables. Another spare di. Plus i carry my own JDI with my bass gear

 

[socialleper]

I feel like I have it easy with bass. I have a 50 ft XLR cable that I can plug into my amp head and run to the mixer. Most of the time, there's a cable ready for me. I've never had a sound guy refuse to run me direct or try to mic my cab.

Guitarists, on the other hand, usually need to run a mic to the mixer. Do you expect a guitarist to bring their own equipment to mic their amp? Most of the time I've seen guitarists very reliant on a sound guy to get completely set up and they rarely own their own mic + stand.

It's a weird division where I feel like bassists are more prepared to play live than guitarists. Just my experience.

Yes, my guitarists mic their cabs, but no, they don't have to do it themselves.
If the venue has a PA that supports their cabs, the sound guy at the venue supplies the mics and sets them up.

It comes down to distortion. Tube heads with a lot of gain often don't work well through DI boxes from what I've been told. Plus, guitarists think they are all special with their cabs\speakers. I've heard that some bass players that push their tube heads into drive territory prefer to be mic'ed as well. I've spent a lot on my cab, so I'd rather be mic'ed so the audience is getting the combination of my head and cab, but I honestly have no idea what the audience is hearing anyway. These days I just focus on the performance.