And it takes the worlds largest smart phone to scan that code on the sign in the middle!
Dunno what it's called, but I'd incorrectly call it a bar code.
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Dunno what it's called, but I'd incorrectly call it a bar code.
This has been a fun thread. Poor OP has probably taken up the Kazoo now and left bass forever. Or maybe on Amazon now shopping for strawberry flavored gun oil.
As much as I respect and care for my good friend Sir Paul, the 18 hater, I must say this:
Seriously, a great guy who is always willing to share his wisdom.
I believe my BE is the equivalent of the early SWR.
And that person shall never be me. Unless you consider strapping an appliance dolly to it and wheeling it out to a shipping container lifting
You know how you put out the fire on a magnesium transmission on a shipboard helicopter? Push it over the side and let God put it out.
On shore you tow it away from other aircraft and watch the show.
Things may have changed, and it's very uncommon for these to catch on fire.
As much as I respect and care for my good friend Sir Paul, the 18 hater, I must say this:
Seriously, a great guy who is always willing to share his wisdom.
I believe my BE is the equivalent of the early SWR.
And that person shall never be me. Unless you consider strapping an appliance dolly to it and wheeling it out to a shipping container lifting
You know how you put out the fire on a magnesium transmission on a shipboard helicopter? Push it over the side and let God put it out.
On shore you tow it away from other aircraft and watch the show.
Things may have changed, and it's very uncommon for these to catch on fire.
I played for a number of years in a touring night club group back in the 70's. My Standel amp had a 250-watt powered speaker cab (that was a LOT of watts in 1971) utilizing two 15's and 4 huge round ports stacked vertically next to the 15" speakers. It was crazy loud. Always had to play with it turned down to 9 o'clock. I could actually put it up at 12 o'clock if we were playing outside, but it was just a monster - loved it. Was stolen in 1976 along with my 1965 Jazz Bass.
I've played with a number of 115's since and they just don't cut it by comparison. Much rather have 212's or even 210's than a 115. Currently I have a 410 by DNA that will knock down walls and I feed it with an 800-watt amp. It is much clearer and louder than my old 215 Standel was, but no question a 215 will "get 'er done!"
Here's a link to a limited edition Eden 215 called the P1515X
Invalid Link Removed
Of course you can always get two of their D115XLT's and stack them as needed.
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Ampeg designed and built the B-18N as more powerful version of the
B-15N. It had twice the wattage and
a cabinet that had better low end response, but it was bigger and heaver than the B-15N. So players put the B-18N head on the B-15N cab. Lighter, more powerful, and good bass
response.
Duke LeJune built a TC-118 and a TC-115. He's currently redesigning the 118. The Thunderchild TC-112 has great low end and it's 30 lbs. Weight and size play
a very important part in bass cabinets.
B-15N. It had twice the wattage and
a cabinet that had better low end response, but it was bigger and heaver than the B-15N. So players put the B-18N head on the B-15N cab. Lighter, more powerful, and good bass
response.
Duke LeJune built a TC-118 and a TC-115. He's currently redesigning the 118. The Thunderchild TC-112 has great low end and it's 30 lbs. Weight and size play
a very important part in bass cabinets.
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I'm not real big on 18s or 15s to be honest. What you experienced was having more speaker area at work. A second 410 would work wonders, also increasing your speaker area over the 18, but with a much tighter low end. Keep in mind each increase in size losesmore that tightness and definition. But if your heart calls for something bigger, I would opt for 12s over the 15s.
Absolutely not picking on @dbsfgyd1 This comparison of NOMINAL hole size (i.e. the speaker size, 10", 15" 18") has been brought up many times in this thread regarding things like how much air can be moved, cone area, etc. and concluding one will have more output than the other.
Pages back I suggested the THREE DIMENSIONAL cone cannot be calculated by its diameter. You have to find the cone area on a spec sheet and multiply that by Xmax to compare. @Rick James later posted the same (or similar) with better terminology... displacement.
I suggest those seeking to compare speakers ability to "move air" look up ten speakers of their choice size on Eminence Speaker | Loudspeakers for Professional Audio and Guitar and Bass | The most trusted name in loudspeakers since 1966. Great upgrades for JBL, Celestion, Jensen, and Fane. or eminence speakers on parts express if you prefer. Check both the pro audio and bass class. Look at the specs and compare the displacement to the OP's 18. I love 15's and can't tell you exactly why. But those suggesting a 15 or 2 x 15 will kill his 18 based on nominal hole size might be surprised to find some 15's can have just over half the displacement of the OP's 18 (very little gain in a 2 x 15 as far as displacement), yet others may have more displacement, so even a single 15 to could gain some ground.
While you have the spec sheets up, also look at the mounting parameters and not the baffle hole size requirement. Even if the cones were flat, not cones, disks in fact, they can't be larger than the actual hole size, which can be quite a bit smaller than the nominal.
Of course there are so many other factors, some published and some not, some subjective and some not. If you look at the spec sheet and don't know what the parameters are, I think it would be best to learn those and their effects before making blanket statements about a certain size speaker will move more air. I'm not married to a speaker size. After a 12" open back geetar speaker project for my wife, my next bass project is a pair or two of neo 8's.
Pages back I suggested the THREE DIMENSIONAL cone cannot be calculated by its diameter. You have to find the cone area on a spec sheet and multiply that by Xmax to compare. @Rick James later posted the same (or similar) with better terminology... displacement.
I suggest those seeking to compare speakers ability to "move air" look up ten speakers of their choice size on Eminence Speaker | Loudspeakers for Professional Audio and Guitar and Bass | The most trusted name in loudspeakers since 1966. Great upgrades for JBL, Celestion, Jensen, and Fane. or eminence speakers on parts express if you prefer. Check both the pro audio and bass class. Look at the specs and compare the displacement to the OP's 18. I love 15's and can't tell you exactly why. But those suggesting a 15 or 2 x 15 will kill his 18 based on nominal hole size might be surprised to find some 15's can have just over half the displacement of the OP's 18 (very little gain in a 2 x 15 as far as displacement), yet others may have more displacement, so even a single 15 to could gain some ground.
While you have the spec sheets up, also look at the mounting parameters and not the baffle hole size requirement. Even if the cones were flat, not cones, disks in fact, they can't be larger than the actual hole size, which can be quite a bit smaller than the nominal.
Of course there are so many other factors, some published and some not, some subjective and some not. If you look at the spec sheet and don't know what the parameters are, I think it would be best to learn those and their effects before making blanket statements about a certain size speaker will move more air. I'm not married to a speaker size. After a 12" open back geetar speaker project for my wife, my next bass project is a pair or two of neo 8's.
I don't mind being picked on if I'm full of gas. I should have been clearer on what I posted. What I should have said was it might not have been the diameter of the speakers that made the difference, but the combination of the design of the speaker and cabs. I'll still stand on my Eden 10s (probably made by Eminence) having a tighter more responsive bottom end than your fifteens, or any 18 on the market regardless of cabs, however.
- Nov 24, 2008
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Actually I made two 118 cabs, the Thunderchild 118 and a Hathor 1855. The large horn needed for the Thunderchild 118 was discontinued and I haven't found a suitable replacement, and the Hathor 1855 was too labor-intensive to be practical. The Hathor-style 118 is the one that I'm working on revising now, while I hope for a good replacement horn to show up for the Thunderchild 118.
Dukeorock is doing a sealed-box 118 with dome mids that looks pretty sweet.
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i own a joes 1-18 cab with JBL speaker , sounds great , plenty of lows and highs , great sounding cab
I didn't feel like looking back for specific posts making claims on "pushing air" vs. diameter, so posting right after your post I thought might come off wrong
I've never done anything with bass/MI 10's, so last night before posting, I looked up a bunch of those and did rough rounded off in my brain math. It looked to me that his 18 could have as much displacement as 2 of some of the tens up to over 3/4 of four 10's. I didn't look at any of the other specs and didn't consider coupling, position, or any of the other factors as I was looking to dispel the common myth or blanket statement often post on TB that says something like "This number of size X will push more air than this number of size Y."
I brought up other parameters being important, but more importantly, you stated, "design of the speaker and cabs" and that is what will determine the tone, sound quality and performance (volume and actual wattage capacity). In the end, one the cab is on the floor and the buyer is playing it, the numbers no longer matter.
If I wanted to make a stand-alone 18" cab, that's exactly what I would do. Probably with an L pad for the mid(s). But I like a darker sound. It will be very cool to see where the @dukeorock 18 goes!
Sorry to hear the parts situation is harassing your 18" cabs Duke!
- Nov 24, 2008
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I have found solutions on the 18" Hathor-style cab, just juggling the tradeoffs now, and paying closer attention to build times than before.
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I've sold a few and have hundreds of shows on my '1822.' I love it, but 18's are a tough sell since folks seem to hang onto strange ideas about every speaker size having a 'sound.' I'd love to hear one of Dukes 18 based cabs some day. Big fan of his cabs!
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Yup, when I saw what he was doing with those two big dome mids + that new-generation Neo-magnet 18, it was a forehead-slap, why-didden-I-thinka-that moment. Imo it's a brilliant approach.
On the L-pad thing, I might make this suggestion: Use a 100-watt, 16-ohm L-pad, and don't connect the parallel leg. It's the parallel leg that burns out when you crank in maximum attenuation. So in effect it becomes a potentiometer, with less range of adjustment, but it's also much less likely to burn out.
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With a little luck, I'll have one at the Invalid Link Removed in about three weeks. Wish you could be there!
- Mar 8, 2011
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