I think you belong on the thank you list my brother.
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- Feb 12, 2006
- 61,077
- 5
- 221,166
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
Are you sure ELF processing was actually being used? The cabinets are MUCH more often used without, and on some ofthe processors you could dial in the amount of integration by selecting the desired F3. IF the F3 was set to say 45-50Hz, it would be much more usable for bass guitar.
I worked with this concept 25 years ago in the pro audio world, it was completely unrealistic and impractical except for very small rooms, and even then it required a lot of cabinets to achieve even 25Hz at -3dB. ELF is a principle (and a valid one), it's not a practical solution.
It was a Bag End 18" cab and a processor unit (no details on it - but I was told it was the key to using that particular speaker cab) with Bag End's name on it. They were connected to each other and powered on. I listened to my bass with it switched in and switched out during soundcheck. So I guess I can say with confidence, despite the large number of intervening years, I heard it in action.
Background info that may be helpful: the venue had a 275 patron max occupancy IIRC. Our drummer was packing a large set of Rodgers drums. Keyboard player was rocking a Korg Trilogy as his main keyboard and a Rhodes. Guitarist-1 played a LP Custom through a Fender Twin. Guitarist-2 a Strat through an Orange. I was playing a Ripper through an SWR SM-400 head into two custom built ported 15" cabs. House PA was only being used for vocals.
- Feb 12, 2006
- 61,077
- 5
- 221,166
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
Here's the information on the ELF process: https://bagend.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/ELFM2.pdf
The newer models include a concealment circuit AND a limiter circuit that operates similar to circuits by Meyer and Renkus Heinz (but not in an integration application), so that once you start running out of power (which happens pretty early), the low frequency integration effect shifts upward, decreases and eventually limits. This is the biggest stumbling block to this concept, which like the physics behind it, simply can not be avoided. Of course you can add cabinets and power (which is done where the extension at higher power is necessary), but that gets around the basic premise of compact, convenient and (reasonably) cost effective.
Now there are all kinds of corrective takes on this technology, primarily in the live audio field (where I come from), but it's not used as an integrator, it's used in a very small part for extending the bandwidth of a system by a small amount (which may be VERY important in context). If fact, the deep switch function on the Subway is based in part on some of the concept (from a pro audio algorithm I developed for subs used in high level reinforcement), but there's no integration.
I recall that there was a factory mod available on the earlier processors that limited the effect of the LF integration to maybe 30Hz or 35Hz for bass guitar and PA applications, but it's been way too long to remember the details. It could have been for products sold specifically into the MI and pro audio industries, but I don't know for sure. I just checked and with the current processor, the low frequency limit of the integrated output is factory set at ~20Hz and is programmable from 8Hz - 70Hz, easily programmed to say 35Hz which will give about 6-7dB of boost at 35Hz to yield a 35Hz F3 with the 18" enclosure. This agrees with my memory.
The newer models include a concealment circuit AND a limiter circuit that operates similar to circuits by Meyer and Renkus Heinz (but not in an integration application), so that once you start running out of power (which happens pretty early), the low frequency integration effect shifts upward, decreases and eventually limits. This is the biggest stumbling block to this concept, which like the physics behind it, simply can not be avoided. Of course you can add cabinets and power (which is done where the extension at higher power is necessary), but that gets around the basic premise of compact, convenient and (reasonably) cost effective.
Now there are all kinds of corrective takes on this technology, primarily in the live audio field (where I come from), but it's not used as an integrator, it's used in a very small part for extending the bandwidth of a system by a small amount (which may be VERY important in context). If fact, the deep switch function on the Subway is based in part on some of the concept (from a pro audio algorithm I developed for subs used in high level reinforcement), but there's no integration.
I recall that there was a factory mod available on the earlier processors that limited the effect of the LF integration to maybe 30Hz or 35Hz for bass guitar and PA applications, but it's been way too long to remember the details. It could have been for products sold specifically into the MI and pro audio industries, but I don't know for sure. I just checked and with the current processor, the low frequency limit of the integrated output is factory set at ~20Hz and is programmable from 8Hz - 70Hz, easily programmed to say 35Hz which will give about 6-7dB of boost at 35Hz to yield a 35Hz F3 with the 18" enclosure. This agrees with my memory.
In digital live, recording, and mixing, plugin tools are used for extending the low end and making it sound deeper. Sub-harmonic generators and psyco-acoustics are used in the mix to achieve some amazing effects for bass, synths, kick drum for danse music. This is used extensively in movie production.
Mixes are made that bring this out without the need for special speakers, although having them makes the processing even more dramatic. People hear this in movie theaters and clubs.
Mixes are made that bring this out without the need for special speakers, although having them makes the processing even more dramatic. People hear this in movie theaters and clubs.
