Does a 1x15 have any advantage over a 1x18?

[BadExample]

With a little luck, I'll have one at the Invalid Link Removed in about three weeks. Wish you could be there!

Too bad Ohio and Indiana aren't closer together. Looks like maybe a 4 hour trip for me. I don't think I can drive that far round trip in one day.

 

[dukeorock]

Too bad Ohio and Indiana aren't closer together. Looks like maybe a 4 hour trip for me. I don't think I can drive that far round trip in one day.

I've been a touring musician so long, I don't really notice the distances anymore. In a van now, driving to Memphis for 3 shows

 

[BadExample]

On the L-pad thing, I might make this suggestion: Use a 100-watt, 16-ohm L-pad, and don't connect the parallel leg. It's the parallel leg that burns out when you crank in maximum attenuation. So in effect it becomes a potentiometer, with less range of adjustment, but it's also much less likely to burn out.

Thanks for the tip! I would seriously consider a full range 18 built if I didn't already have all the parts to build 4 "Doc and Wyatt's" Sealed 15/6 build Two without mids, but aluminum dust cover modified 15's. The latter are mentioned in the build thread and the former are the very guts of the original Doc and Wyatt. The modified drivers are on the bright side for my tastes, eq works, but I may end up padding the mids depending on how everything sounds. So I might get to employ your tip

I always dig how openly sharing you are with your knowledge, Duke!

 

[BadExample]

I've been a touring musician so long, I don't really notice the distances anymore. In a van now, driving to Memphis for 3 shows

I lived in Memphis mid 82 to 83... loved it!

I wish I could still drive far. Health issues makes it take too long to recover if I go over an hour or hour and a half. For the most part, I have no place to go. One cornfield is the same as another...

 

[DukeLeJeune]

Thanks for the tip! I would seriously consider a full range 18 built if I didn't already have all the parts to build 4 "Doc and Wyatt's" Sealed 15/6 build Two without mids, but aluminum dust cover modified 15's. The latter are mentioned in the build thread and the former are the very guts of the original Doc and Wyatt. The modified drivers are on the bright side for my tastes, eq works, but I may end up padding the mids depending on how everything sounds. So I might get to employ your tip

I should have said "it's the parallel leg that causes the burnout", my mistake.

Put the L-pad-turned-into-potentiometer in between the highpass filter and the driver, that's where it will see the least wattage. Yes it will alter the effect of the highpass filter, but with a second order (or higher) filter, you'll still be "in the ballpark". And you'll probably want at least second order anyway to adequately protect the mid.

I always dig how openly sharing you are with your knowledge, Duke!

Thank you.

I'm really just a DIY-er whose journey to the Dark Side is now... complete.

 

[BadExample]

I should have said "it's the parallel leg that causes the burnout", my mistake.

Put the L-pad-turned-into-potentiometer in between the highpass filter and the driver, that's where it will see the least wattage. Yes it will alter the effect of the highpass filter, but with a second order (or higher) filter, you'll still be "in the ballpark". And you'll probably want at least second order anyway to adequately protect the mid.



Thank you.

I'm really just a DIY-er whose journey to the Dark Side is now... complete.

Thank you friend. This is the crossover: [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] (1.6KHz/18db/octive)

I haven't traced the board out to find how the pad wires in, but had planned on this, plugged into the board: [This invalid link has been removed] Probably either works, but maybe your way is a bit safer if I dial the mids way back.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

I didn't feel like looking back for specific posts making claims on "pushing air" vs. diameter, so posting right after your post I thought might come off wrong

I've never done anything with bass/MI 10's, so last night before posting, I looked up a bunch of those and did rough rounded off in my brain math. It looked to me that his 18 could have as much displacement as 2 of some of the tens up to over 3/4 of four 10's. I didn't look at any of the other specs and didn't consider coupling, position, or any of the other factors as I was looking to dispel the common myth or blanket statement often post on TB that says something like "This number of size X will push more air than this number of size Y."

I brought up other parameters being important, but more importantly, you stated, "design of the speaker and cabs" and that is what will determine the tone, sound quality and performance (volume and actual wattage capacity). In the end, one the cab is on the floor and the buyer is playing it, the numbers no longer matter.

No, what you wrote was pretty much spot on. We're cool!

 

[ThisBass]

you might also have been hearing a more "coherent" overall sound from matching speakers rather than the 4x10 + 1x18 hodgepodge, don't discount that either.

if you really like your 4x10 then a second identical one underneath would likely blow away the 15 and the 18, including having more powerful lows.

Accoustical coupling adds to a coherent sound wave anyway independent of cab and speaker design/format/size.

No chance to address issues that don't exist in real live (and science)

 

[40Hz]

Not a lot of information to go on for this quest. I'm reading a lot between the lines, but I gather weight is not much of a concern for OP?

Also guessing he fell in love with a 2 x 15. Maybe one he can't get ahold of. That's what leads me to believe swapping the 18 to a 15 is going the wrong direction. A different 2 x 15 (in place of the 4 x 10) may or may not get him going.

OP, what is your goal as far as tone and can you get the 2 x 15 from your friend? Maybe find out whats in it and try to find some used drivers and copy it? Then you can try it with the 4 x 10 and then the 18 and see how either work out.

Have you tried the 18 alone?

But, yes its a try before you buy. Or build : D

I'd suspect a pair of 1x15 cabs is what he'd be happier with. The 18 only comes into its own with a folded reflex cab or with a specially designed ported cab and a processor like Bag End used to do with that 18" cab (S-18D or something like that?) coupled with the INFRA-MDB processor they designed to go with it. But with that you still need another cab since their 18 is a subwoofer.

 

[agedhorse]

I'd suspect a pair of 1x15 cabs is what he'd be happier with. The 18 only comes into its own with a folded reflex cab or with a specially designed ported cab and a processor like Bag End used to do with that 18" cab (S-18D or something like that?) coupled with the INFRA-MDB processor they designed to go with it. But with that you still need another cab since their 18 is a subwoofer.

The infra processor reduces the power handling by a HUGE amount, the maximum SPL falls like a rock. Fine for home theatre or lower level PA/playback, but not very useful for bass guitar.

 

[ThisBass]

He also may like the absence of phase issues that were corrected by using matching drivers.

May be I'm missing the point but what kind of possible issues do you address in particular just to cause issues
phase issue caused by delay
or
phase issue caused by phase shift

 

[ThisBass]

i dunno.

the added 18 will likely sound louder with more lows than a 4x10 three feet off the ground does by itself, and that's really all it takes to conclude that a given stack combination is "better".

True but all of the the same things do happen by stacking a 410 on top of a matching 410

 

[ThisBass]

I always dig how openly sharing you are with your knowledge, Duke!

Thank's Duke
Thank's Andy

Thank's all the guys who help us to improve our knowledge

 

[40Hz]

The infra processor reduces the power handling by a HUGE amount, the maximum SPL falls like a rock. Fine for home theatre or lower level PA/playback, but not very useful for bass guitar.

Ran with one (not mine - too expensive and I don't really feel a need for subs in live performance even today) several times in the 80s. IMO it worked and sounded quite good at the non-ear shattering SPL club levels in those (no FOH most places) days.

Not often I'll disagree with your assessments. But this time I think we have very different viewpoints on this one.

 

[BadExample]

FWIW, the older ELF era (S18B-C) go up to about 2KHz. They were sold as an ELF cab or bass cab. A bit dark, but not bad for me. I prefer to use it with a 15" tweeter. The newer infra era cabs have the infra separated out from the bass cabs. The infra 18 would not be suitable for bass alone if their response rating on the top is accurate at all. OP's 18 is rated at up to 2.4KHz. Then it drops dead by 5KHz.

Most of my statements were directed at the OP's question, would "a" 15 be better than "an" 18 with his 4 x 10. Andy's first response is right as usual, it depends. We have a pretty good adult diaper list going a page or three back, "It depends on..." We need to know the variables to really give him an answer.

I think he should get out and try some 2 x 15's and see if that's what he likes. Get one. Or if it's friends 2 x 15, get that one or make the same. Then try that with the 18.

I'm a hack.

 

[BadExample]

I'm really just a DIY-er whose journey to the Dark Side is now... complete.

Haha didn't see your edit. If the dark side includes selling your soul, I hear you no longer feel guilt and it makes things a lot easier. Can't see you needing to get rid of guilt. Your a straight up guy. Keep your soul

 

[agedhorse]

Ran with one (not mine - too expensive and I don't really feel a need for subs in live performance even today) several times in the 80s. IMO it worked and sounded quite good at the non-ear shattering SPL club levels in those (no FOH most places) days.

Not often I'll disagree with your assessments. But this time I think we have very different viewpoints on this one.

Run the numbers, the math is very simple. For every octave of extension, you loose between 12 and 24dB of maximum SPL (depending on the octave).

The extension has to come from somewhere, in this case its due to the integration function which increases gain as frequency decreases, starting at F3. If the F3, is 60Hz, at 40Hz there will be at least 12dB of boost to achieve the new F3, which subtracts from the power handling (thus the SPL) This is why it never bacame popular for higher SPL requirements.

 

[ThisBass]

Sometimes some things work in particular application but are risky on the main stream

as usual, it all depends #6

 

[Rick James]

Run the numbers, the math is very simple.

Yep, the ELF uses a sealed cab with 12dB/octave roll off mated to an EQ that provides 12dB/octave boost to give flat response down to the lowest frequencies. Where the math comes in is that for each octave of lower extension 12dB of EQ boost takes 16 times the amp power, along with 16 times the voice coil capacity and four times the driver excursion. I saw a large ELF driven PA system once, and while the cabs were small by touring sound standards the number of them they had to use was like four times what good ported subs would have been, so the pack space wasn't reduced at all, and the amp count was quadrupled, even though they high passed the system at 30 Hz.

 

[40Hz]

Run the numbers, the math is very simple. For every octave of extension, you loose between 12 and 24dB of maximum SPL (depending on the octave).

The extension has to come from somewhere, in this case its due to the integration function which increases gain as frequency decreases, starting at F3. If the F3, is 60Hz, at 40Hz there will be at least 12dB of boost to achieve the new F3, which subtracts from the power handling (thus the SPL) This is why it never bacame popular for higher SPL requirements.

I won't argue with your numbers. (I'm not even sure I completely grok the full significance of them, me being a musician and not an audio engineer.) I'm just saying the times they plugged me into a stack that had one I thought it sounded really good and was more than adequately loud.