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Does a reverse headstock tighten up the low end?

Discussion in 'Basses [BG]' started by BboogieXVII, May 5, 2015.


  1. BboogieXVII

    BboogieXVII

    Feb 4, 2013
    jammin
    Would it? It seems that it would lengthen the low end scale in an unofficial way and perhaps therefore tighten up the B and E strings on 5 or 6 stringers and the low E on a 4 banger. What say ye?
     
  2. hdracer

    hdracer

    Feb 15, 2009
    Elk River, MN.
    No
    Just no...
     
  3. No. It wouldn't change the scale. Nut to bridge is all that matters. Unless you believe the string can move a bit at the nut during play. And if it does, lengthening the E or B with a reverse head would make the string MORE flexible. Not less.
     
  4. bikeplate

    bikeplate Supporting Member

    Jun 7, 2001
    Upstate NY
    No
     
  5. Flaked Beans

    Flaked Beans

    Sep 9, 2005
    NYC
    Fodera makes extended b headstock.

    [​IMG]
     
  6. They sure do. And it's hooey. But somebody asked for it so there it is. Tuning that would drive me nuts.
     
    hover, blindrabbit, mb94952 and 17 others like this.
  7. BboogieXVII

    BboogieXVII

    Feb 4, 2013
    jammin
    Right; this is exactly what I'm talking about, so everyone is saying this doesn't do a thing to tighten up the B string. I don't understand why it wouldn't.
     
  8. JimmyM

    JimmyM Supporting Member

    Apr 11, 2005
    Apopka, FL
    Endorsing: Ampeg Amps, EMG Pickups
    The tension remains the same regardless of how much length there is between nut and tuner. That's why.
     
    hover, blindrabbit, StayLow and 7 others like this.
  9. SteveCS

    SteveCS

    Nov 19, 2014
    Hampshire, UK
    And people pay thousands for this? Each to his own and all that, but really? Those angles through the nut, different key lengths, mixed up tuning directions, inside/outside windings - IMO this is about as un-engineered as it is possible to get. And for what, a longer bit of the B string behind the nut which makes not a jot of difference to anything... Although I do like the inlay :)
     
  10. Funkmabassup

    Funkmabassup

    Jul 16, 2013
    tunerposition doesnt matter for tension. On a 34scale bass the tension needed between nut and bridge too produce the right tone wont change.

    Seeing people pay fortunes for stuff like that is just hillarious :D But of course Fodera make those if a high paying customer demands it, I would too if it would make money. Its still as ridicilous as rotosound making coloured stringbindings because Jaco could hear the colours, so could the hobbits and Gandalf :p
     
  11. Happynoj

    Happynoj

    Dec 5, 2006
    UK
    I like turtles.
    Can you explain why it would?
     
  12. Davo-LON

    Davo-LON

    Jun 3, 2014
    OK so here goes ...

    The scale length of the string is governed by the position of the nut and the bridge saddle. The string extends beyond the saddle and beyond the nut. But these sections do not affect the scale length. Tension in the string is created by tuning and tightening the string around the tuner post. For a selected string, let’s say 0.1” E string, there will be a certain tension in the string that will make the string give the correct pitch for the E note. Any other tension will create a different pitch but not the one we want. So Tension and pitch and thickness of string are all related:

    Frequency = [(Tension/Mass)^0.5]/2 x Length

    So if we fix frequency, i.e. the note E, and we fix length, i.e. bass guitar scale length, then we have: Tension/Mass = constant.
    So, if we want more tension, we have to increase the mass (i.e. a thicker string).
    I hope this explains the string physics.

    As an aside, TBers are commonly wanting more tension in their B-string and they like to solve this by buying a new bass with a longer scale length. In a way this is exacerbating the problem. If we increase the scale length then we need more tension to maintain the same pitch. If you want more tension then the obvious thing to do is to get a heavier gauge string.

    PS: I love floppy light strings. I like the feel.

    Davo
     
  13. may i direct you to a headless bass system, they usually tune at the bridge, and are fastened above a zero fret and nut (usually).

    no spare string to wind round a tuner as its done via tension at the bridge.

    probably due to manufacturing methods employed in most headless systems but they have a very clear and accurate sound.
     
  14. bholder

    bholder Affable Sociopath Supporting Member

    Sep 2, 2001
    Vestal, NY
    Received a gift from Sire* (see sig)
    Hey, no dissing Gandalf! :D
     
    Nephilymbass likes this.
  15. Lobster11

    Lobster11 Supporting Member Supporting Member

    Apr 22, 2006
    Williamsburg, VA
    In what way does buying a new bass with a longer scale length exacerbate the problem?
     
  16. bholder

    bholder Affable Sociopath Supporting Member

    Sep 2, 2001
    Vestal, NY
    Received a gift from Sire* (see sig)
    It doesn't exacerbate the problem - longer scale solves it - most folks are looking for more tension at a given pitch, not less. But yeah, 2 main solutions: longer scale and/or bigger gauge. I suppose other factors (like core and winding type and size) factor in as well, but those are the two main variables.
     
  17. Bodeanly

    Bodeanly Supporting Member

    Mar 20, 2015
    Chicago
    My OCD refuses to let me play this bass. Not that I could afford it.
     
  18. RJC1811

    RJC1811

    Nov 19, 2008
    Canandaigua, NY
    If you had given me this bass without strings it would have taken me a long time to figure out how to string it. Even after coming up with this method I would still feel like I was doing something wrong and there must be a better way.

    OP - The string length myth has been around for ages. I have an old Epiphone Archtop with the Frequensater??? (I don't remember the real name for it) tail piece. It holds the EA and D strings about 3" further back from the GBE strings to "increase" tension but the strings all cross the bridge at the same point, no difference.
     
    TC424, dgrizzly and ICM like this.
  19. friendlybass

    friendlybass

    Jul 19, 2012
    Colorado
    I'd see that and think I bought a lefty on accident. It looks like a kid strung that poopie
     
  20. BruceWane

    BruceWane

    Oct 31, 2002
    Houston, TX
    You are correct that a longer scale length string will need more tension than a shorter scale length string to be tuned to the same pitch, given that the string gauge is the same.

    Assuming that the issue is a string with less tension than desired, this doesn't exacerbate the problem, it solves it.
     
    Jim Carr, dgrizzly and MattZilla like this.

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