Does Alder or Ash Matter?

[R Baer]

I always find the "does the wood make any difference" debate to be a lot like the climate change debate. No matter how many of the most highly respected luthiers say wood makes all the difference, there's always a group of players that claim it doesn't. I recently went through an experience with my new Sadowsky where I was able to try that bass with three different Sadowsky necks. So, exact same bass and three different necks. All necks were maple with pau ferro boards. So, in theory, if the wood makes no difference to the instruments tone, the bass should have sounded the same no matter what neck was on the bass. Nope. That bass sounded markedly different with each of the necks. Do I think everyone is able to hear the difference? Of course not. To my wife, or my son who plays and hasn't yet developed the ear for picking out different frequencies, the basses sounded the same. To myself and a couple guys I know to have good ears, the differences were night and day.

I also believe that the necks make the most difference. Body wood has less of an effect in my opinion. I hear the difference between ash and alder and a stronger more even midrange with alder and a hair brighter top end and slightly scooped mids with swamp ash. More to the OP's original post, it's important to keep in mind that every bass you play will sound different. I don't care if they are clones of each other, there will be slight difference. Once you start talking about different brands and different models, then all bets are off. There's just no way to judge what a certain wood sounds like by saying that I liked the ash body Fender better than the alder body Music man. You have to use the sonic properties of the various wood species and a rough guideline to their tone. Every piece of wood will sound different.

 

[MegaSwing]

I've never seen such a meaningless subject debated as though something really depends on it before. Just chalk it up as one of life's imponderables. Like what you like, and move on. I like alder, but I can play ash and not sound any different. It mostly depends on the deal when I'm buying the bass.

 

[bluesblaster]

Imponderables..........love it.

 

[jim nolte]

Papier maché anyone?

Has anybody made a bass from one of those 3D printers yet, I wonder what that would sound like?

 

[Bipslapper]

Alder is "warmer" and my 3 Modulus basses tell me the same- all have Alder bodies, 2 have figured Maple tops and the hollow, CF necks. In my experience, Ash is lighter (a good body choice with laminate bodies such as Bubinga and Tiger Maple) and sounds great. Live- who cares, but playing alone in my studio in my boxer shorts I notice the difference? As you were...

 

[4andnomore]

I have an ash P and an alder P with the same pickup installed on each. The ash has a rosewood FB, the alder is maple. They sound 100% identical except the ash P has a more noticeable dead spot. But otherwise, they sound the same to me.

That's pretty much been my experience as well. Different pickups, on the other hand...

 

[jim nolte]

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1998/02/980227055013.htm

Time, Reality and Quantum Physics

10 Mind-Blowing Theories That Will Change Your Perception of the World

Some of these are very "layman-ized" (which is a good thing--the actual papers these articles are derived from are enough to scramble my brain permanently) and some border on the spiritual implications more than the "meat and potatoes" of it, but you can also reference the famous "double slit" experiment, perhaps look into Schrodinger's Cat and check out current theories on the nature of time, as well as the construct of light.

Some current theories regarding time seem to indicate that there is no such thing as linear time (i e. a past-present-future) but rather that everything in the universe has/is happened/happening in one big NOW and that it is strictly our perception that causes us to experience time as a flow. Stephen Hawking has said "It should be just as easy for us to remember the future as it is for us to remember the past" but our brains seem to prevent us from seeing "reality" the way it truly is, perhaps as a method of aiding us in retaining our sanity. In fact, it could be that people we consider "crazy" are actually seeing and experiencing more of what's "real" than we actually do, as humans do typically.

These theories suggest that what we think of as time is more like little packets or pockets of events that gather around probabilities which are then codified into segments of time as they are taken in by our consciousness.

Fun stuff!

A great classic movie that touches on this is Slaughter House 5, by Kurt Vonnegut, check it out Jim

 

[Binary1]

I've never seen such a meaningless subject debated as though something really depends on it before.

You should check out some "9mm vs .45" threads on firearms forums.

 

[MobileHolmes]

You should check out some "9mm vs .45" threads on firearms forums.

Throw 40 S&W in there as a wildcard and watch the poop hit the fan.

 

[Wai]

Can you hear the difference? I can yet the guy who made can't. This is why the tonewood debate is pointless, many cannot hear the difference even though it sounds clear as day to many others. Does it exsist, yes. But does it matter if you are one of the many who can't hear it? To me it seems like one less thing to worry about.

 

[Humbled]

Yes, no, maybe. It's all a stackup of attributes.

This is like asking if my hazel-eyed child will be more or less successful than my blue-eyed child.

 

[ole Jason]

You should check out some "9mm vs .45" threads on firearms forums.

HAHA This is very true. People are insane.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

Tone comes from (ignoring the player and the amp):

1) Electronics including pickups
2) Strings
3) Neck wood
4) Fingerboard wood
5) Body wood

IME / IMO

 

[GIBrat51]

Has anybody made a bass from one of those 3D printers yet, I wonder what that would sound like?

Actually, yes; and I can't for the life of me remember the name of the company. Someone posted a link to the website a couple years ago, on one of the Gretsch Owners forums (not the thread here). They were pretty crazy looking things; mostly hollow , with wild looking meshing gear/lacy strut/basket weave bodies. Definitely a "look what we can do" kind of thing. As I remember, they weren't particularly expensive, and actually didn't sound half bad. As soon as I found out they had no plans to make lefties, though, I sort of forgot about them. Sorry... But, yes. At least, somebody did ...

 

[Muddslide]

Having played literally hundreds upon hundreds on both ash and alder bodied basses, to my ears there ABSOLUTELY is a difference. Also I currently have 2 of the same model basses with both types of bodies and I can totally hear the difference

I certainly wouldn't try to deny your own experiences or debate what you hear with your own ears, but there are so many variables at play.

Do these same-model basses weigh precisely the same? Are they the exact same age? Are the electronics down to the wiring, amount of solder, pickup windings, pots and caps 100% identical? Are the necks completely the same? Same nut composition? Same bridge and saddle composition? Bridges the same mass? Identical sets of strings with the same age and playing wear on them? Any difference at all in the tuners? The finish?

As mentioned elsewhere, if you are really, really listening for it you are quite likely to hear a difference between basses made from the same tree that rolled off the line the same day with sequential serial numbers. Instruments are the sum of their parts, build and everything else. IME, any difference you may hear will be lost on 99.9% of anyone else listening. I gave up chasing the tone dragon many moons ago and focus now more on ergonomics.

I've actually seen people argue over the effect on tone of the composition of pickguard screws. Pickguard screws!

It gets a bit ridiculous. (Not saying you are ridiculous, nor the statements you made.)

I always find the "does the wood make any difference" debate to be a lot like the climate change debate. No matter how many of the most highly respected luthiers say wood makes all the difference, there's always a group of players that claim it doesn't.

But that's the thing. As mentioned right on this thread, not to mention plenty of other places, there are plenty of respected luthiers who will state wood type really doesn't have a marked effect, or make much difference at all, or makes a very marginal difference that falls well behind all kinds of other things that make a greater difference, etc.

A great classic movie that touches on this is Slaughter House 5, by Kurt Vonnegut, check it out Jim

Oh yes. Great film...like the book even more. In fact, it was the first book I ever re-read, back when I was quite young. Got to the end, flipped it back to page one and started it right over again.

 

[JimmyM]

Which begs the question...which is the best 3d print polymer for metal?

 

[thehangingmist]

yes
to who!?
matters to the player first i guess but maybe some can learn to disregard it.. but if you are spending hours with an instrument it gets to you.. if i wanted a jazz bass just for that one moment it might be needed and never really play it much i'd be ok with either i guess but if it is going to be my main instrument i'll add up all my experiences and go for the one that seems to speak to me the most.. swamp ash.. mmm

 

[Slpbass81]

It doesn't matter what fretboard or body wood you use. Know what it will sound like to the audience...a bass. I wouldn't waste any time thinking about it as long as the bass you pick up sounds good to you.

 

[rmayer]

I find that my basses with a Tort guard tend to have a mellower tone than my basses without a pick guard. Can't go wrong with Tort.

 

[Fuzzbass]

I always find the "does the wood make any difference" debate to be a lot like the climate change debate. No matter how many of the most highly respected luthiers say wood makes all the difference, there's always a group of players that claim it doesn't.

You are correct in one respect: in the climate change debate, the scientists say it's happening, but "others" disagree (I will withhold comment on who and why to avoid political discussion).

I think it's fair to claim that the majority of luthiers believe that wood makes a difference -- however the problem is that there is no empirical evidence. Expert opinion is still nothing more than opinion. The scientific method was developed largely because expert opinion is often wrong: no matter how much you know or how much experience you have, you can't just claim something, you have to prove it.

Bottom line: given that no scientific evidence exists on this topic, exactly no one can claim to know for certain. All anyone has is opinion. Therefore, if you believe wood makes a difference, then you are correct. If you believe wood doesn't make a difference, then you are also correct. Have whatever opinion you want, buy whatever gear makes you happy, it's all good.