Does Alder or Ash Matter?

[-Asdfgh-]

I'll have to find the plank experiment one. That sounds interesting.

It was about four years ago, from memory.

I'd say the violin experiment is more about acoustical properties. A pickup is turning your vibrating string into an electrical signal. An acoustic instrument actually uses the wood to amplify the sound. I was mainly talking about electric solid body guitars.

The violin test was about modern or old violins are better. Received wisdom is that old ones are better. The test demonstrated no such effect (if anything player preference was for new, but not statistically significantly so, so essentially a dead heat). So it was more an example of the fact that received wisdom may or may not be accurate, and the valid test is having a valid test.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

With a bit of research and some funding for the computer time it could be modelled, but it's probably quicker and cheaper to buy a an ash and alder body from Warmoth with otherwise identical specifications ans fit, transfer over hardware from an existing bass, and do some recordings with some sort of measured plucking device. If someone wants to buy me the Warmoth bodies and fund gearing down my drill to power a cork with four plectrums stuck in it, I'll give it a go.

 

[Antisyzygy]

It was about four years ago, from memory.



The violin test was about modern or old violins are better. Received wisdom is that old ones are better. The test demonstrated no such effect (if anything player preference was for new, but not statistically significantly so, so essentially a dead heat). So it was more an example of the fact that received wisdom may or may not be accurate, and the valid test is having a valid test.

Got ya. I recall reading about an experiment where they were trying to copy the sound of some of those ancient violins made from waterlogged wood.

 

[Imaginary Pony]

Never read some Shakespear in English so I didn't know ... it is strangely close to French

That's because it's Latin...

In french translations it"s
Tu quoque mi fili — Wikipédia

 

[jim nolte]

Mrs. Pony and I had a similar conversation to this a few days ago, with regard to colors.
How Men and Women See Colors | Geek in Heels

After years of working in camera stores it was always a trip to be dealing with somebody who is color-blind. That is their normal even though it's way different than mine. Trying to get to a consensus on a color print that we printed was always an adventure to say the least. Jim

 

[Binary1]

I've come to the opinion that the effect on sound of different woods is only negligible, whether you are discussing body wood, fretboard wood, etc.

It is much less marginal when it comes to acoustic instruments.

I'm not even sure it matters then. Remember, these are classically-trained orchestral professionals.

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[bass12]

Never read some Shakespear in English so I didn't know ... it is strangely close to French

Not strange - French is a Latin language.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

I'm not even sure it matters then. Remember, these are classically-trained orchestral professionals.

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Thanks - that's the study I was referring to.

 

[Antisyzygy]

Never read some Shakespear in English so I didn't know ... it is strangely close to French

It's from the phrase "Et tu, Brute?" or "You, too, Brutus?" which were supposedly Julius Caesar's last words. He said them to his friend Marcus Brutus. Marcus Brutus betrayed him, as he was part of the assassination plot that took Julius Caesar's life.

 

[LanEvo]

So I swapped the pickups and electronics.

Did you also swap the electronics harness, or was it just a pickup swap? Tone capacitors rated at the same number can actually be different when you measure them.

As I said, I swapped everything over.

Are the bridges the same? Are the nuts made of the same material?

Since "tone is 100% in the pickups" (as TB loves to argue), then none of that should matter anyway But, yes, nuts and bridges were the same.

I think wood would have some minor effect, but not enough for the vast majority of people to notice. I'm not saying you didn't notice this, someone with a well trained ear might notice a 1% difference.

I'm convinced wood does make a difference...but I think it's more about the "structural integrity" of the wood than the particular species.

My "good" LP Special had a two-piece body and was very resonant acoustically. It was very loud, full, and balanced even unplugged. The "bad" LP Special was made of 4 or 5 strips of wood all glued together. It was lighter, but felt a little dead. What I mean by that is you didn't get the feeling of the strings vibrating along the whole length of the guitar, if you know what I mean. Unplugged, it was not only noticably less loud than the good one, but also sounded a little tinny. That difference carried over to the amplified sound ... and (to my dismay) the difference persisted even after the pickups and electronics were swapped between them.

My conclusion is that the "structure" of the guitar (combination of wood and construction) wasn't as good as it should have been. And no amount of electronics swapping/fiddling was going to turn it into a great guitar.

 

[bolophonic]

While it's true that wood effects are minor and probably no listener could pick them out, the PLAYER can tell in a second. I've got a bunch of ash and alder basses and as a general rule the ash bodies are brighter than the alder. Now I love both tones, but they aren't the same. Basswood to me is even more rolled off and "foofy" sounding in a passive bass. BUT, as you note since the wood is a minor effect it is easily compensated by electronics. For example a Bongo bass is designed to use basswood (for lightness) and it is anything but "foofy"! Actually, Mahogany is my favorite wood and it's about half way between Ash and alder. But tends to be on more expensive basses so I only have a couple maghogany basses.

No offense to you, personally, but all of this sounds made-up.

 

[mistergoats]

I like mahogany and ebony. Sounds like a bass. Or a weird version of a Stevie Wonder and Paul McCartney song.

 

[Lownote38]

For me and the builders I know, it isn't the type of wood as much as the piece you choose of said wood that makes the most difference. I have an Alder custom 5 string with a flamed maple top. The neck is maple with a rosewood fret board. The builder chose the pieces of wood based on what they sound like when you tap them. Every piece has its own tonal qualities. My bass ended up weighing a mere 8 pounds, and it sounds great, so the builder picked the right pieces of wood in my opinion.

 

[MEKer]

Just for the heck of it---here is a Strat sounding guitar but...er...the Lancaster pickups/ electronics are put on an old wooden beer crate. Certainly "flavored" the tone, huh? Make of it what you will.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

Just for the heck of it---here is a Strat sounding guitar but...er...the Lancaster pickups/ electronics are put on an old wooden beer crate. Certainly "flavored" the tone, huh? Make of it what you will.

My ears had note fatigue after the first 10 seconds. Some sustained notes and I might have known if the correct crate to use is Heineken or Grolsch.

 

[blindrabbit]

I am thinking the electronics mean more than the wood.

Truth was spoken in the first post, albeit understated.

 

[GreyBeard]

There probably is a slight difference in tone but which is better is totally a matter of opinion. I have noticed a rather large difference in a maple fret-board and rosewood with maple being my choice but then again, it is only a matter of opinion.

 

[Belka]

Whatever you do, you'll never have that sound unless you use his bass, and his fingers. You'll get an approximation, but not that sound.

Actually in Marcus Miller's case his tone is really not that hard to cop. I mean this with no disrespect to MM. He's a superb player. But seriously, the ash/maple jazz bass and a thumb and you're 90% of the way there. Note that I mean TONE wise, not playing wise. But then again 'tone' does not exist outside our heads anyway, does it?

 

[Joebone]

I know I've had some great alder-smoked fish over the years, from the Pacific Northwest and Alaska.

Is anyone using ash for flavor?

 

[Imaginary Pony]

Just for the heck of it---here is a Strat sounding guitar but...er...the Lancaster pickups/ electronics are put on an old wooden beer crate. Certainly "flavored" the tone, huh? Make of it what you will.

Papier maché anyone?