Does Alder or Ash Matter?

[jim nolte]

I always preferred ash, but after playing an alder Stingray, and listening to clips of alder Sire V7s, I am thinking the electronics mean more than the wood. I must add that I borrowed an alder rosewood Sadowsky RV5 that was as live as any ash bass I ever played too.

I own two alder and two ash bodies. Played un-amped I can feel a difference in the why the body resonates against my chest. The ash is "sharper" in vibration and the alder is a little "rounder" for lack of better descriptions. How this plays out in real world playing and recording I haven't really noticed a real big difference. I believe a tort pickguard has a far greater impact on tone! Jim

 

[gustobassman]

I agree with others, in a band context it's nearly impossible to "hear" the difference, but for me it's a feel thing. I can feel the bass when I play alder bodied instruments. Ash bodies don't seem to resonate physically as well when in contact with my body. That may sound weird, but I stand by it. YMMV.

 

[Justinian]

No. Unless it matters to you... All that matters to me is the feel and the sound of the instrument. Generally I like the sound of heavier basses but this could easily be coincidental.

 

[Imaginary Pony]

OK guys, let's be serious for just a little while...

*Tone Does Not Objectively Exist*

It's an electronic signal in your brain, primarily the temporal lobe, which is stimulated by the movement of tiny little bones and hairs in your inner ears.
The sound information from the cochlea (which is a spiral-shaped, fluid-filled tube) travels via the auditory nerve to the cochlear nucleus in the brainstem. From there, the signals are projected to the inferior colliculus in the midbrain tectum. The inferior colliculus integrates auditory input with limited input from other parts of the brain and is involved in subconscious reflexes such as the auditory startle response.

The inferior colliculus in turn projects to the medial geniculate nucleus, a part of the thalamus where sound information is relayed to the primary auditory cortex in the temporal lobe. Sound is believed to first become consciously experienced at the primary auditory cortex. Around the primary auditory cortex lies Wernickes area, a cortical area involved in interpreting sounds that is necessary to understand spoken words.

In other words, it's all in your head. If you believe it makes a difference, then it will, but only to you.

 

[GIBrat51]

Does it matter? Like a lot of things, IMO the answer is - It Depends.
- Are you a guitar/bass company? Which of them is cheaper? That's the best one.
- Is the body going to be painted Fiesta Red (or any opaque color)? See the first question. Clear/transparent finish? Ash usually has a nicer grain, so it's "best".
- Are you one of the obsessive "tone wood" people who live around here? Pick the alder camp, or the ash camp; then defend your choice to the death...
- Are you a serious, vintage Fender fan? Then Ash is best; Alder is for Johnnie-come-latelys.
Which is best, in my opinion? The 2 basses I have with burst finishes are ash-bodied; nice grain, and one of them is a vintage P-Bass (but the body wood's not why I bought it). As far as I know, none of my other ones have alder bodies; but, honestly, I don't think about it, unless somebody asks. They are what they are. Long as they work when I plug them in, I'm happy. I like all of mine; or else I wouldn't have them.

 

[Antisyzygy]

OK guys, let's be serious for just a little while...

*Tone Does Not Objectively Exist*

It's an electronic signal in your brain, primarily the temporal lobe, which is stimulated by the movement of tiny little bones and hairs in your inner ears.
The sound information from the cochlea (which is a spiral-shaped, fluid-filled tube) travels via the auditory nerve to the cochlear nucleus in the brainstem. From there, the signals are projected to the inferior colliculus in the midbrain tectum. The inferior colliculus integrates auditory input with limited input from other parts of the brain and is involved in subconscious reflexes such as the auditory startle response.

The inferior colliculus in turn projects to the medial geniculate nucleus, a part of the thalamus where sound information is relayed to the primary auditory cortex in the temporal lobe. Sound is believed to first become consciously experienced at the primary auditory cortex. Around the primary auditory cortex lies Wernickes area, a cortical area involved in interpreting sounds that is necessary to understand spoken words.

In other words, it's all in your head. If you believe it makes a difference, then it will, but only to you.

That's why we have things like spectral analysis and tools to record or otherwise analyze audio signals.

There is a legitimate answer here I think but you'd have to perform an experiment and control for a lot of variables by basically designing a test apparatus. Then use equipment or software to analyze the frequencies produced. Remove the human from the equation so to speak.

I personally think wood wouldn't matter much, because you have a string vibrating against two metal pieces, with a fixed coil picking it up in the middle. The wood isn't being used to amplify the sound like it is on an acoustic guitar.

However maybe there is some complicated feedback or dampening happening between the bridge and wood, or fret and wood. Part of being skeptical and/or doing science is allowing yourself to be wrong and learning from it.

 

[DWBass]

Whichever is lighter is what I'll choose. In the context of a mix..........no. Electronics, strings, setup and playing style have much more impact on one's sound than body wood. Some woods are more expensive than others. Some look nicer than others. Doesn't make you sound better. Give me a lightweight wood and a solid finish and I'm good.

 

[jim nolte]

OK guys, let's be serious for just a little while...

*Tone Does Not Objectively Exist*

It's an electronic signal in your brain, primarily the temporal lobe, which is stimulated by the movement of tiny little bones and hairs in your inner ears.
The sound information from the cochlea (which is a spiral-shaped, fluid-filled tube) travels via the auditory nerve to the cochlear nucleus in the brainstem. From there, the signals are projected to the inferior colliculus in the midbrain tectum. The inferior colliculus integrates auditory input with limited input from other parts of the brain and is involved in subconscious reflexes such as the auditory startle response.

The inferior colliculus in turn projects to the medial geniculate nucleus, a part of the thalamus where sound information is relayed to the primary auditory cortex in the temporal lobe. Sound is believed to first become consciously experienced at the primary auditory cortex. Around the primary auditory cortex lies Wernickes area, a cortical area involved in interpreting sounds that is necessary to understand spoken words.

In other words, it's all in your head. If you believe it makes a difference, then it will, but only to you.

All of 'reality" is in your head. "Real" reality is probably like static or white noise. Whenever you gaze out into the world your brain assembles selected frequencies to paint a picture of what it appears to you. We as humans agree on certain realities so we can have discourse and live with each other, but reality is always going to be a little different for every individual brain. it's amazing to me we can get along at all! I know, it's a little OT Jim

 

[Imaginary Pony]

That's why we have things like spectral analysis and tools to record or otherwise analyze audio signals.

There is a legitimate answer here I think but you'd have to perform an experiment and control for a lot of variables by basically designing a test apparatus. Then use equipment or software to analyze the frequencies produced. Remove the human from the equation so to speak.

Does anybody seiously propose passing a bass signal through a spectrum analyser before choosing Alder over Ash?

 

[Eilif]

That's interesting because poplar Peavey Foundations were great basses!

I'm curious about this as well. I think my '95 MIM Precision is Poplar. It's nice and light and sounds great to my ears, but it's also got upgraded pups, tuners, bridge, electronics, etc., so I'm not sure about what effect it's happening on the sound.

As to the overall sound, I think that I can catch some of the differences between woods, notably the depth associated with northern ash and Mahogany. However, I could be fooling myself since my bases with those heavier woods also have thicker sounding pickups (T-40 humbuckers and Dark Stars)

 

[-Asdfgh-]

A double-blind test with only one variable (wood type) changing with enough tests to be statistically significant would be the way to go.

Someone here did tests with the same pickups both in a bass and the neck and pickups nailed to a pine plank and if I remember correctly, people couldn't really tell which to any particular degree.

 

[Antisyzygy]

Does anybody seiously propose passing a bass signal through a spectrum analyser before choosing Alder over Ash?

Not me. I am just saying this debate has an answer. People arguing about it based on what they "heard" or "hear" is kinda stupid, because we can actually find out the real answer if we want to and human beings are subject to all sorts of cognitive biases (which is why we design tools and experiments to figure things out). It would take an experiment or some sort of mathematical model that is well established. To my knowledge, no one has done it probably because it's not really important.

 

[Imaginary Pony]

All of 'reality" is in your head. "Real" reality is probably like static or white noise. Whenever you gaze out into the world your brain assembles selected frequencies to paint a picture of what it appears to you. We as humans agree on certain realities so we can have discourse and live with each other, but reality is always going to be a little different for every individual brain. it's amazing to me we can get along at all! I know, it's a little OT Jim

Mrs. Pony and I had a similar conversation to this a few days ago, with regard to colors.
How Men and Women See Colors | Geek in Heels

 

[St. Louis Scot]

I always get a kick out of the smart-alec remarks in replies assuming that every single bassist plays exactly the same music in exactly the same way at exactly the same gigs through exactly the same rigs. Sure the tone gets buried, perhaps, when YOU play where YOU play with whom YOU play. And of course when I'm playing with a power blues trio, neither I nor the audience can tell the difference in wood tone at those volumes. In a worship setting the bass gets buried in the mix, so same answer. But...

When I'm playing with a small jazz combo and expected to play various styles and take solos, both I and my audience would be able to hear the difference. ALTHOUGH, I have no doubt that the audience doesn't really gives a damn nor is paying attention to that. I'm certain no one but another bassist is going, "Hmmmm that would sound much warmer with an ash bass. He really should have gone with ash." Hahaha!

I guess my point is that I can hear the difference between ash and alder in passive basses. And prefer to select a bass accordingly if I think it matters. But to agree with everyone else, that's more about pleasing myself with the tone, and hopefully translating my pleasure to the listeners' experience.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

Not me. I am just saying this debate has an answer. People arguing about it based on what they "heard" or "hear" is kinda stupid, because we can actually find out the real answer if we want to. It would take an experiment or some sort of mathematical model that is well established. To my knowledge, no one has done it probably because it's not really important.

There have been experiments in relation to boutique violins and vintage ones, and many in terms of hi-fi audio, and the plank experiment referred to above.

 

[Clef_de_fa]

Et tu, Doc?

is that an attempt at speaking French ?

 

[Antisyzygy]

There have been experiments in relation to boutique violins and vintage ones, and many in terms of hi-fi audio, and the plank experiment referred to above.

I'll have to find the plank experiment one. That sounds interesting.

I'd say the violin experiment is more about acoustical properties. A pickup is turning your vibrating string into an electrical signal, which is then amplified. An acoustic instrument actually uses the wood to amplify the sound. I was mainly talking about electric solid body guitars.

 

[Imaginary Pony]

is that an attempt at speaking French ?

More like a reference to Shakespear, no?
Et tu, Brute? - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[-Asdfgh-]

Alder or ash may make a difference, but the only real test is to have a real test.

 

[Clef_de_fa]

More like a reference to Shakespear, no?
Et tu, Brute? - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Never read some Shakespear in English so I didn't know ... it is strangely close to French