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Does an overdrive tone sit better in a rock mix?

Does an overdriven dirty tone sit better in a rock mix?

  • Most likely yes

    Votes: 71 46.1%

  • Not necessarily

    Votes: 83 53.9%
  • Total voters
    154
  • Poll closed .
#41
ourworldisgrey said:
I think people are confusing "not obviously distorted in a full band mix" with clean. Most often overdrive (and sometimes even distortion or fuzz) does not sound much different then a "clean" tone. It adds harmonics that enables it to better heard at quieter volumes rather than gig volumes.
Click to expand...

Excellent point.

Few would say that Jamerson and McCartney had overdriven tones, but they did: whether from a slightly overdriven mixing board, slightly overdriven amp, or slightly overdriven tube compressor.
 
#43
@groove: see this is where I am at with the Tonehammer..for some reason I feel weird leaving pedals on my pedalboard engaged all the time to achieve the sound I want...could be I need a paradigm shift...or to go the tube route with another amp..:)

Maybe I should split the signal b/w the TF for (clean and f/x loop) and get an amp that has a tube pre with some natural tubey od...then again simplicity in form and function is a good thing..hmmmm..I feel like Jeckyl and Hyde here..sorry for my scattered mumblings
 
#47
I'll go along with Jimmy. I think that a lot of younger players listen to the old bands with their distorted bass lines and consider that as the "Rock Tone". In actuality most of us who lived and played during that period hated the distortion but had to live with it. We had no choice! I spent most of my career searching for an amplifier that could give me loud and undistorted and actually sound like a BASS.

Paul
 
#49
I think bass breaks/intros/solos sound fantastic distorted out, but if it's too distorted, then the fundamental seems to get lost. I want to hear and feel the note. Some rumbly lowend players sound great, same with super clean players. I think just a little bit of growl/grit/fuzz/od/*** ever gives the note that little extra width/girth/edge.

My SVT never truly sounds what I would call "clean". It always has this overtone kind of fuzziness to it. I play damn loud though.
 
#50
BassmanPaul said:
I'll go along with Jimmy. I think that a lot of younger players listen to the old bands with their distorted bass lines and consider that as the "Rock Tone". In actuality most of us who lived and played during that period hated the distortion but had to live with it. We had no choice! I spent most of my career searching for an amplifier that could give me loud and undistorted and actually sound like a BASS.

Paul
Click to expand...

As Bill explained, there are different levels of overdrive. For awhile I borrowed a friend's Bassman rig that could do nothing but fart. It was cool for vintage Jack Bruce/Noel Redding/Mel Schacher/Felix Pappalardi tones, but bad otherwise.

What most of us are talking about is light overdrive, the kind that sounds clean unless you listen closely or hear the bass soloed. Again, Jamerson and McCartney are good examples. These players had the option of recording clean, but compression/overdrive was added by design.
 
#51
In your basic one bass one guitar rock band a distorted bass would be ok. However if your rock is more drop tuned death metal, I would think a distorted bass tone would just get lost in a sea of aural mush. A clean tone would let you cut through that wall of noise pretty well. Of course at the volume level that most hard rock and metal bands play at you'll probably get a some overdriven speakers anyway.

I think it all depends on what you're doing.
 
#52
In order for a clean bass sound to work in a mix as well as a dirty one you will need a great compressor like an old Gates sta-level or other varimu type compressor.
Dirty sounds like tube dirt are quite heavily compressed by the tubes soft clipping and the output transformer saturating.
Transistor compressors with diode sensing like Neve 33609 are good too.
api 2500, Smart C2 or Distressor are quite good at this as well.:bassist:
 
#53
thanks bassmec...I have little experience in the studio so that is good to know..

the poll is nearly 50/50 at this point and I would love to hear from proponents of clean non od rock tone some really good examples so I can educate myself on that end of the spectrum too.

Thanks to all

Mark
 
#55
It depends on how you define "overdrive", what you define as a "rock mix" and most of all how your dirty tone is implemented.

For say, metal, a clean bass tone (with a bump in the low mids) actually seems to work best. Competing with heavily distorted, downtuned guitars it's generally not a good idea to dirty up the bass or you risk disappearing in the mix altogether.

But yes, in general for most "rock" music, a bit of overdrive can help fill out the sound, especially if there's only one guitar.

But there is a difference between overdrive and distortion or fuzz. In general they are just different degrees of clipping. And one thing to keep in mind is that while a bit of grit or dirt may fill out your sound, as you clip the signal more and more you are also reducing the clarity of each note.

Robert Sledge's tone (fuzz from a Big Muff) sounds great in Ben Folds Five but in a denser mix that clipped, mid scooped tone would render him all but inaudible.

You CAN have a heavily distorted bass tone work in a mix with distorted guitars but as King's X does it really requires some teamwork and "frequency slotting" so that you aren't stepping all over one another sonically.

It's always a cardinal sin of guitarists and bassists to slave over a bedroom tone that doesn't work on the gig. Overdriven bass can sound fantastic in a rock mix but the key is making sure that it fits with the tones the other guys/gals have going on too.
 
#56
I don't think there's an absolute answer. I generally agree with JimmyM's take, there are good and bad examples of both. A lot of it has to do with the sonic landscape of any particular band/song. I will say that on the whole, when the music is already a certain baseline of "aggressive" or "rock" I tend to like an inverse ratio of gain between guitar and bass tones. For example when you get into very heavy, dirty guitar tones I like a very clean punchy bass tone otherwise I feel like it gets washed out with the guitars. If the guitars are more of an overdrive tone I tend to like a very dirty bass tone. I wouldn't necessarily apply that to a lot of other types of music that would have cleaner sounding guitar tones though. I wouldn't want to make a hard and fast "either/or" rule about it.
 
#58
I vote yes. This is why i run a VT Bass as an always on pedal. I have it set where it just starts to break up a bit. That extra richness in the harmonics just makes my tone sound so much fuller and really helps my slide into my slot in the mix. I wouldn't say my tone is "distorted" but overdriven yes....and i guess technically that means its distorted.

I think a lot of people would be suprised how dirty some bass tracks really are when you take them out of there mix.
 
#59
Hizzoner said:
Not being arrogant or disrepectful here but can anyone give an example of a great uber clean ROCK tone with no OD? I'm certain they are out there..as they are in Jazz and funk music in particular
Click to expand...
cliff williams of ac/dc. i've heard isolated tracks of his and they sound clean as a whistle, like he's only going through a di.

there are a lot of others, too. i do like a bit of overdrive in rock, but a good clean tone also works for rock in the right circumstances.
 

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